- "The Landsmeet's the big news. Every dusty noble estate in Denerim is airing its sheets, waiting for the lord to ride into town." ―Gorim
Arl Eamon Guerrin after you heal his illness and have all allies from treaties
- Warning: launching this quest begins the endgame section of Origins; a number of previously visited locations will become inaccessible. It's advised that most side-quests be completed before starting the Landsmeet.
Arl Eamon Edit
The Landsmeet is proposed by Arl Eamon of Redcliffe as a way to deal with Loghain's treachery, by putting him up against a vote of his peers. Once the Warden has gathered all armies with the Grey Warden treaties, Eamon will call for the Landsmeet to convene, and brings the Warden, Alistair, and their companions to his estate in Denerim.
- See Arl Eamon's Estate for the map and details about the area.
Upon arriving in Denerim for the Landsmeet, you are informed by Queen Anora's handmaiden Erlina that the Queen is being held captive by Rendon Howe at his estate in Denerim. She requests your assistance in freeing her. You'll need to sneak into Howe's estate to rescue Anora.
Rescue the Queen Edit
- Main article: Rescue the Queen
- See Arl of Denerim's Estate for the map(s) and details about the area(s).
This Estate is far more than just the place where Anora is held captive. It is, in fact, the only place to gain supporters against Loghain (outside of the Alienage) and is, therefore, the only thing that will ensure you win the Landsmeet. Your chances of winning the Landsmeet are begun in positive and negative support from the minute you arrive in Denerim and how you structure your quest to Arl Eamon's request to look around and see if you can garner support. The first place you need to go is Arl Howe's Estate.
You have to sneak into the Arl's estate by procuring guard uniforms (which you will be automatically changed into once you have them). You cannot have Shale in your active party during this quest. If you do, before you move to sneaking into the Estate, Anora's handmaiden will request Shale be replaced.
Inside, you are free to explore as much as you like, and nobody will question you as long as you keep the uniforms on. Once you reach Anora's door, you will find that a mage has put up a force field on the door. You need to find the mage, who Anora says will likely be with Arl Howe, to disengage the force field. Keep going down the hall. If you have not finished exploring the area, if you enter the first room in the last hallway do not go too far into the room (though it is possible to go far enough into the room to gather codex), you simply need to allow him to get to a point in the conversation with his female companion that she begins talking at which point he will be sufficiently distracted enough to allow you this far, but do not go any closer to him because unlike the other guards, this one will not ignore you completely. He will realize you are not part of the regiment, and will sound an alarm. This will cause all the guards in the estate to turn hostile. It is possible if you do not care for the Codex entry, to simply not open this door and continue onward.
As you approach the dungeons, you will encounter Riordan, another Grey Warden who will become key to the plot further on. He is also the person you will need to talk to in order to find Duncan's Shield. You need to ensure you get the 'Grey Warden Papers' from the chest in the room before you enter the cellar. These are the papers on the joining ritual and Riordan may need them later.
The Dungeons Edit
- See Arl of Denerim's Estate - Dungeon for the map and details about the area.
In the dungeon, your disguises will be useless as Howe's men will know you are not one of them and will attack you. Watch out for the grease trap at the beginning, as the tripwire is tricky to disarm.
There are a number of prisoners you can free (though two may not be present depending on actions taken in the City Elf Origin), some of which are relatives of nobility. They are:
- Oswyn, son of Bann Sighard, is tied to a rack in a torture chamber. Freeing him starts the quest Tortured Noble.
- Rexel, the missing soldier for the Chanter's Board quest Missing in Action, is in one of the jail cells on the east side.
- Across from Rexel at the end is Soris, an elf from the alienage. Releasing him makes Shianni more receptive to you in a later quest (and nets you +4 approval with Zevran). He will not be here if a City Elf Warden took all responsibility for the incident during the origin story.
- Vaughan, the son of the former arl of Denerim, is found in a cell on the north side. You can also release him for aid in the Landsmeet. If you tell him that your rescue will be very costly, he will give you a key to a chest containing 40 sovereigns. With enough Coercion, you can trick him into giving you the key and leaving him to rot. You can also simply kill him (though you won't be able to loot the key from his body). Note that if you decide to free him, you will net as much as -5 disapproval from Zevran. Vaughan won't be here if he was killed during the City Elf Origin, but he will [confirmation needed] be there at the Landsmeet.
- Next to Vaughan's cell is Irminric, a delirious templar. Unlike Rexel, he will not leave his cell, instead asking you to give his sister Bann Alfstanna his ring. This starts the quest Lost Templar.
Howe himself is found in a dungeon room with two mages, one of whom can shapeshift. He will attack you after some dialogue. Be advised that Howe can use stealth and mark of death. Once he is dead, you can loot the Biteback Axe from him, as well as his key, which you need to open the cell doors for Vaughan and Irminric.
Vaughan is a possible individual for release in the dungeons (unless you are playing as a City Elf and killed him). There is a possible bug that can occur when you approach Vaughan's cell (as an individual other than a City Elf) which will cause Vaughan to be behaving as though he's awake, but if you attempt to speak to him, all you'll get it snoring. You're also incapable of opening Vaughan's cell as usual. Meaning you are unable to garner his family's support in the Landsmeet. It is advisable to save before fighting Howe and to load your save if you get this glitch. The loaded file should be bug-free. You can also try clicking the cell door to trigger dialog with him instead of talking to him directly. If that fails you can take the door to the first floor, and then go back into the dungeon. If leaving and coming back fails to make him respond properly it is also possible to stand near Vaughan with the cell door targeted then have a mage cast glyph of paralysis followed by glyph of repulsion on top of him, this will cause an explosion that paralyzes you both and once the spell ends interacting with the cell door starts the dialogue. Acid Flasks and the Fireball spell work as well. At this point he will react as normal. If you do release Vaughan, Zevran disapproves ( (-4) or (-5) ) and Morrigan approves (+2) .
Vaughan will offer you the key to his lockbox (containing 40) in exchange for his freedom. You can persuade him to hand you the key first and choose to leave him in the dungeon, or kill him for his crimes after. He can even be released in exchange for his support in the Landsmeet, whether or not he bribes the Warden.
Ser Cauthrien Edit
When you are done in here, return upstairs to Anora's room. (Note: as long as you do not unlock the door, the guards right outside cannot enter. Thus, you can cast as many AOE spells as you like outside of the room, allowing you easy kills with no chance of getting hurt in return.) As you make your way to the front door, you will be accosted by Ser Cauthrien and a large number of Loghain's guards. You can either surrender, put up a fight, or tell her that you are trying to rescue the queen. If you reveal the queen's presence, she will accuse the party of kidnapping her. Either way, it will trigger a fight with Cauthrien and her men. She is very difficult to defeat; if everyone falls or you surrender, the Warden along with Alistair (if he is with you) will be taken to Fort Drakon which starts the quest, Captured!. (your other companions will retreat to Eamon's estate)
Battle with Ser Cauthrien and Loghain's Guards Edit
- See Ser Cauthrien For more advanced tactics how to defeat her.
If you're determined to go through with this fight, pull back as soon as you can into a corridor or room to force the archers to chase you down, gather together and provide an easier target for mass crowd control. If you retreat fast enough and far enough back into the corridor you came from and into the first room on the right (further down the hall and opposite the side from Anora's cell), it is possible to lure Ser Cauthrien by herself into the room, where she can be handled with ease. Her remaining guards are much easier to deal with once she is out of the way, and they can be taken care of at your leisure. (Guards may open the door and follow her in as well, verified on PC version, and there is a 50-50 chance that they will on the 360). Should you manage to beat Ser Cauthrien and Loghain's guards, loot the Summer Sword from Ser Cauthrien, a very nice two handed sword. If you try to fight Ser Cauthrien and Loghain's guards head on, you will find it extremely difficult even if you have a powerful tank such as an Arcane Warrior or a high level Sword-and-Shield user. In this case, you must use one of your allies to distract Loghain's guards and try to kill the mage as soon as possible. If you have a templar, then it is a good idea to use him for this act. Another extremely effective way to accomplish this is to use the Sleep spell, which can put the entirety of Ser Cauthrien's guard under if placed correctly. The rest should take on Ser Cauthrien, as she can deal more damage than all the guard combined. It is entirely possible that by the time Ser Cauthrien is dead, you will be the sole survivor. However, if you managed to take out the mage, then it should be easy from that point.
Another way is to engage Ser Cauthrien and retreat to the room where the queen was held. Once Ser Cauthrien in the room, close the door and deal with her. Other enemies usually wait outside the door. If you have a mage in your party, then using cold and shock clouds from inside the room (without opening the door) will dispatch all remaining enemy units with no trouble.
It should also be noted that surrendering or losing the fight with Ser Cauthrien is not the last opportunity to obtain the Summer Sword; she will again attempt to stop you just before you enter the Landsmeet Chamber (see below).
Regardless of how well you prepare, procure evidence, and how convincing an argument you give during the Landsmeet, one of the nobles will always side with Loghain, and another will always side with the Wardens, leaving four more nobles to decide the result of the Landsmeet.
If you beat Ser CauthrienEdit
If you defeat Ser Cauthrien and all her minions, you can loot the The Summer Sword from her, then open the door to the exterior of the Arl of Denerim's Estate and exit to the City Map. Fort Drakon is still locked, but there are no quests that require access to it (however, there is an achievement/trophy associated with visiting this location called "Traveler"). Head to Chanter Rosamund to let her know about Rexel (and claim the reward for the Missing in Action quest), then to the Gnawed Noble Tavern to inform family members about the people you freed from the dungeon, then return to Arl Eamon's Estate to discuss Anora's treachery. You will skip the entire Captured! quest, but you will have obtained a lot of XP in the battle, so it isn't a great loss.
- Main article: Captured!
If the Warden surrenders to or is defeated by Ser Cauthrien, then he/she will be taken to Fort Drakon and the Captured! quest will start. If Alistair was in the party, then he will be imprisoned along with the Warden. Anora and the rest of the companions will return to Arl Eamon's estate and tell him what happened. After waking up in Fort Drakon, The Warden has the option of either breaking out or waiting for rescue by friendly companions. Once free of the prison, it will be time to speak with Arl Eamon and Anora. Note that if you are captured, your equipment will be removed; these items can be retrieved from a chest just to the right of the door leading out of the cells.
Back at Arl Eamon's Estate Edit
Once the queen has been rescued and the Warden is at liberty, there is the chance to make good on getting people to side with the Warden against Loghain. Everyone who had a son/brother imprisoned can be found at the Gnawed Noble Tavern. Give Alfstanna the ring if you want her support; if you do not give her the ring, you will lose her support at the Landsmeet. Don't forget to approach Arl Wulff in the booth closest to the door in the Gnawed Noble Tavern and talk to him to ensure you secure his vote. There are several individuals who will have their say at the Landsmeet. One of them will always vote for Loghain, so you need to procure the support of the others.
After returning to Arl Eamon's Estate, Anora will explain that there has been unrest in The Denerim Alienage and that she suspects her father and Arl Howe are behind it. She suggests investigating the Alienage for incriminating evidence to use against Loghain at the Landsmeet.
At this point, it is also possible to lay some groundwork for who will take the throne by speaking with Anora and Alistair. It is possible to convince Alistair to marry Anora with sufficient Coercion skill.
Riordan will also be in Arl Eamon's estate. If the Warden Documents were found in the Arl of Denerim's estate, then speaking with him now gives the Warden the option to ask more about the Grey Warden Vault he mentioned, and he will explain its location.
Unrest in the Alienage Edit
- Main article: Unrest in the Alienage
Once this quest has been obtained from Anora, the previously closed gate to the Alienage from the Denerim Market District is now open and can be used to access the Alienage via the Denerim City Map (the guard by the gate will confirm that the Alienage is now open again). You will not be able to reach the Alienage directly from your map and instead must go through the exit in the southeastern portion of the Market District.
Inside the Alienage, there seems to be some sort of plague, and some Tevinter mages allege that they are helping to cure it. Shianni, however, is suspicious of their motives. Investigate the Tevinters and reveal Loghain and Howe's implication in elven slavery (see main article for walkthrough).
At the end of the Tevinter Warehouse you will encounter a large battle with Caladrius and a bunch of his minions. Upon defeating him he will offer to increase a great deal of your physical power (+1 Constitution) by using blood magic and sacrificing the elven prisoners in exchange for his life. Accepting his offer results in disapproval from Wynne (-40) , Alistair (-10) , Leliana (-15) and Zevran (-8) , but approval from Morrigan (+4) and Sten (+4) . After the cutscene ends he will disappear, so you don't have the option to kill him after you accept his request. If you refuse you can either let him go or kill him.
After completing the quest, head back to Arl Eamon's estate and show him the Slave Papers. You have to do this if you plan to use them as evidence against Loghain in the Landsmeet. If you do not show the papers to Eamon, this will be considered an unsupported claim that will work against you.
Royal Palace Edit
After completing the last quest, a new icon appears on the Denerim City Map and you can travel to the Royal Palace where the Landsmeet is held. Traveling there starts the next part of this quest line. And so the Landsmeet starts.
The Landsmeet decision Edit
If you didn't wipe out Ser Cauthrien's troops at the Arl of Denerim's estate, she moves to prevent your entrance to the Landsmeet. Several conversation options make combat here completely avoidable. If Coercion is high enough she will even admit to knowing that Loghain must be stopped, and allow you by without incident. Killing her is difficult but also the only way to acquire The Summer Sword; it's also significantly easier than it was (or would have been) at the Arl of Denerim's Estate.
The decision is basically a popularity contest and you need five "points" to win the Landsmeet. These points are unlikely to match up with the voting as presented in the cutscene; thus the Warden might seem to win the vote, yet lose the debate.
- Anora's support = 3
- The Grand Cleric's denunciation = 2
- Each named noble who supports you (via successful quest and/or argument) = 1
- Each named noble who supports Loghain (via failed quest and/or argument) = -1
- Persuasive argument = 1
- Failed argument = -1
You can gain support as follows (nobles are in the same order as they vote in the cutscene):
- Anora doesn't vote, but speaks at the end of the debate against Loghain. If you talked to her before the Landsmeet, promised to support her claim for the throne and didn't insist that Loghain must pay for his crimes, she speaks in favor of the Grey Wardens; otherwise she will speak against them.
- Grand Cleric Elemena doesn't vote, but denounces Loghain if Lost Templar is completed and the charge of using an apostate in poisoning Arl Eamon is brought up in the third round of the debate.
- Bann Vaughan Kendalls of Denerim can be released from Howe's prison in exchange for his vote.
- Arl Bryland of South Reach supports the Warden by default (countered by Bann Ceorlic).
- Bann Alfstanna of the Waking Seas votes for the Warden on the basis of:
- Bann Sighard of Dragon's Peak votes for the Warden on the basis of:
- Quest: Completing Tortured Noble by releasing Sighard's son from Howe's prison.
- Argument: Bringing up the slavery charge
- Arl Wulff of the Western Hills votes for the Warden on the basis of:
- Argument: Saying that Blight is the real threat, either the first or third round of debate, regardless of whether persuasion is successful.
- Bann Ceorlic votes against the Warden by default (countered by Arl Bryland)
- If Trial of the Crows was completed, a mysterious nobleman will lend support to the Warden, citing help in a 'family matter.'
- The last noble to speak does not represent a winnable vote, but summarizes the vote's outcome instead (his vote and the outcome of the debate never differ, as with the canceling votes of Bryland and Ceorlic).
There are multiple ways to win the Landsmeet. Just be careful when presenting the arguments of Ostagar or Alistair's claim to the throne: the first isn't backed by any evidence, and without successful Persuasion, pursuing either of these will cost you a point. In fact, any Warden who leads with Alistair's claim, then follows by accusing Loghain of his Ostagar treason, automatically loses the debate.
Winning without Anora: Complete Lost Templar and Tortured Noble successfully before the Landsmeet. Use the Persuasive "focus on the Blight" argument in the first round, the "torture dungeons of Howe" argument in the second, and the "poisoning of Arl Eamon" argument in the third. This will ensure the Grand Cleric's denunciation of Loghain and the votes of Alfstanna, Sighard and Wulff; if you do not expect to succeed in the first Persuasion, free Vaughan or complete The Trial of Crows.
Winning without completing quests:
You cannot bring up the arguments of Howe and Eamon since you do not have any proof. You need Anora's support and persuasive arguments which do not cost you any points, which is Blight in the first round, slavery in the second and Alistair's claim (with a successful persuade check) in the third.
If you have not gained the support of the majority of the nobles, you lose the debate. If this happens, Loghain will order you arrested, with Arl Eamon declaring he will fight back. A melee breaks out in the Landsmeet chamber.
Alternatively, tell Loghain, "If it's a fight you want, you'll get it! (Attack)"
If you win the Landsmeet, Loghain will accuse everyone of being traitors and refuse to give up power, and you can either directly challenge him to an honorable duel or simply attack.
Brawl: Arl Eamon and his men will back you up; Anora's royal guards will also help you against Loghain if you have supported her for succession to the throne. Other named nobles fight on the side of whomever they support. After you deplete Loghain's health, the Grand Cleric and nobles will break up the fight, and suggest that the matter be settled with a one-on-one duel.
Once it's time to settle matters with a duel, you have to decide if you, Alistair, or one of your companions will fight him (except Dog; choosing the mabari as your champion nets some amusing dialogue). If you keep refusing to duel, Alistair will finally lose his patience and duel Loghain himself.
Loghain fights with a sword and shield, and may switch to a crossbow if you move out of range. He can knock you down with Shield Bash or War Cry, so use some caution if you don't have good physical resistance. A mage can easily defeat him with Cone of Cold, and Crushing Prison spell can take him out in less than 10 seconds in combination with good attacks. Glyph of Repulsion also works well to keep Loghain from effectively attacking. If you want to use more mundane tactics, Loghain is hard to hit, but you can even out the playing field immensely with some Soldier's Bane to keep his special attacks to a minimum. A warrior should at least outlast him in a battle of attrition, since he doesn't drink potions.
When you win the duel, Loghain will surrender. At this point:
- If Alistair was the Warden's champion, a cutscene has him execute Loghain after he and the Warden nod to each other. Anora will then withdraw any support previously promised, and cannot be convinced to wed Alistair.
- Otherwise Riordan will appear and you will be given the chance to show Loghain a mercy punishment and induct him into the Grey Wardens.
- You can only recruit Loghain if Anora is supported as queen, or you have Anora and Alistair marry.
- Loghain then takes Alistair's place in the party.
- You may kill Loghain yourself or pass the responsibility to Alistair.
- If Alistair is named King but does not wed Anora, he will order Loghain's death.
- Main article: Possible Landsmeet Outcomes
There are a vast number of possibilities and outcomes for the main characters after Loghain has been defeated in the duel. Some of these choices and options will only be available to characters with a high Coercion rank, or by laying groundwork for them in prior events. Depending on the choices made during the dialogue, deciding the fates of these characters can be a tangled affair, with one decision having significant consequences on the fate of the others.
- ps3xbox360If you won the Landsmeet, you will be awarded with +1 spell/talent and +1 attribute point. This will show as a level up, but will not increase your level.
- Rule on his own
- Rule jointly with Anora
- Rule jointly with a female Human Noble Warden as his queen-consort
- Remain as a Grey Warden and let Anora rule
- Be executed by Anora
- Leave the party and become a wandering drunk
After rescuing Anora and before the Landsmeet, you will have several opportunities to talk to Alistair regarding his becoming king. If you intend to make him king and are pursuing a positive relationship with him, and regardless of whether you really intend to have him marry Anora, you should convince him that it's a good idea, using either cunning or persuasion to do so. Otherwise, after the Landsmeet and the cutscene at Arl Eamon's estate, he will disapprove (-2) . This will happen even if he has been hardened. Remember: Alistair doesn't really want to be king. Even hardened, he still needs to be persuaded. Also, this has to be done before leaving the estate for the Landsmeet; the necessary conversation options are not available after that. However, it should be noted that if you have hardened Alistair and do not want him to rule, do not let him duel or kill Loghain otherwise the Warden will not get to decide and Alistair will automatically be made king.
It is also important to note that if you want Alistair to rule jointly with Anora, you must not let Alistair execute Loghain after defeating him in battle (which will also happen if you say Loghain must die, but then say you can't go through with it). If Loghain is executed by Alistair, Anora will refuse to rule jointly with him and force you to choose between herself and Alistair.
- Rule on her own
- Rule jointly with Alistair
- Rule jointly with a male Human Noble Warden as her king-consort provided that you have not "hardened" Alistair
- Be imprisoned by Alistair, if he becomes king and doesn't marry Anora
Anora will refuse to marry her father's murderer, so if you are planning for either the male Human Noble or Alistair to rule with her, you must make the other individual perform the deed.
Loghain might be:
- Executed by Alistair or The Warden.
- Recruited into the Grey Wardens (causing Alistair to leave the party for good)
If you make Alistair rule jointly with Anora it is still possible to recruit Loghain. Though a "hardened" Alistair will not be happy, he will still rule jointly with Anora. However, if Loghain is recruited, Alistair will leave the party no matter what.
- When you first talk to Anora after opening her door, one of the conversation options is "Aren't you a little short for a guard?". This is most likely a reference to Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope in which Princess Leia asks Luke upon his rescue of her: "Aren't you a little short for a storm trooper?".
- In one of the top-angle scenes from the Landsmeet hall, there can be seen a black bird perched on the ceiling beam.
- Anyone who has played through Chapter 2 of Neverwinter Nights 2 will see the similarity between The Landsmeet and the player character's murder trial in that game. Firstly, in both games you can sway the audience with enough diplomacy/coercion. Secondly, if it goes bad for you, you will call for a duel which will decide the outcome, much like Sand does in NWN2. If it goes well for you, then Loghain will call for a duel, like Torio does in NWN2. Before the trial in NWN2 you can gather evidence supporting your innocence, much like the Warden's gathering of evidence of Loghain's wrongdoing.
- Something similar also occurs in Jade Empire. The PC has the option of presiding over a "debate" in which the PC tries to convince the foreign "barbarian" that the native peoples & culture of Jade Empire is sophisticated and adequate in its own right. This event, too, ends in a duel between the PC & the argumentative foreigner.
- If you ask Caladrius how he knows of you, the text at the top of the screen will read "One can hardly get a word of out of Regent Loghain besides 'Warden' these days. It surpassed even 'gold' in popularity.". However, it is spoken "the Regent" instead of "Regent Loghain."