|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Shapeshifter article.|
It says in the strategy guide I bought that Morrigan will teach you and she does hint that she would if your approval was high enough "Perhaps, if I felt so inclined... I do not.". However, I've gotten her approval almost to max (it was maxed then she initiated a conversation that dropped approval about 13 points) and never could get her to teach it. Is it a glitch in the game considering the guide says she will teach it? Has anyone gotten her to do it? DLou 14:56, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
- I got her approval up to max and also got both of Flemeth's Grimoires and have the same issue. I did not try all conversation paths with her yet though. I would also like to know if someone actually got the specialization and how also. >.<
- I'm not sure what I did to get it from her. I managed to talk it out of her shortly after adding her to the party, before we even left her house I think (I'm a warrior), as did a friend of mine (he got it from her in Lothering, he's a mage). I've confirmed that it is unlocked, but I still have the option of asking her to teach it in the party camp, and now she refuses. Yet I already have it. So I don't know, at this point, if she's still refusing, then prospective shapeshifters should probably just buy the book. Vund223 15:38, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
Unlocking Shapeshifter Edit
I was able to unlock shapeshifter from Morrigan by talking with her in the party camp, even though my approval was somewhere around 50%. I had already given her the Black Grimoire. It should be noted that I am playing as a warrior, which may be a big reason why she would offer it to others in my party but not me because I was unable to learn. The screen still came up that said something like "Shapeshifter Specialization Unlocked" This may be a workaround to gaining the specialization without having high approval, as long as you are not a mage. I am also playing on Xbox 360. TJRlz86 00:51, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
I just unlocked Shapeshifter, and I was only just leaving Lothering! It's counter-intuitive, but here's how it worked for me: I asked Morrigan about Shapeshifting, and she told me "it's a spell, and requires a mages ability, so I'm afraid you cannot." (I'm a Warrior.) I asked her again, and she said, "Yes, if I care to. But, I do not." to which I replied: "Maybe you better find the desire to." She gets pissed and ended the conversation, so I opened it up again and asked the very same question: "Can you teach others to do so?" And this time she answered, "I cannot teach you to do so. But, send any others who might be able to me in camp, and I will teach them." And BAM! - it was unlocked! Crazy. Maybe it just takes persistence?
I don't know if I had to piss her off with "you better find the desire to", and now that it's unlocked, it doesn't matter if any other response will work. Finally!!--188.8.131.52 21:56, November 18, 2009 (UTC)
Tried unlocking Shapeshifter again with a new character upon reaching Lothering. It seems that Morrigan's approval rating is not the key to unlocking this!! Based on the wiki, and the way the other companions behave, it is natural to assume that you have to "win her approval" before she'll teach you this. But, from my last attempt with my new character, I simply gave Morrigan the silver bracelets found in the Tower of Ishal while at Flemeth's hut, then conversed with her about shapechangers upon reaching Lothering. I had to complete that dialogue, then re-open her, upon which the question "Can you teach others?" finally becomes an option. Her response was to have anyone I knew capable come and see her in camp and she would do so. No need to "woo" her!--184.108.40.206 19:45, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
This appears to be a bug. The scripting comments say that Morrigan will not teach Shapeshifting if she is not warm, and is not romantically interested in the player character. This was being tracked by a variable called MORRIGAN_DEFINED_IS_NOT_WARM_OR_INTERESTED. However, the dialogue condition for rejection checks for the opposite condition: if MORRIGAN_DEFINED_IS_NOT_WARM_OR_INTERESTED == False, then reject the request. That triple negative means Morrigan would counterintuitively reject the player if she were warm and above or interested in the player. This was not what the developers intended, as shown by the scripting comments, and also makes her seem bitchier than usual for turning down a teaching request only if you were warm or friendly or romantically involved with her. To fix this bug, flip that condition by checking MORRIGAN_DEFINED_IS_NOT_WARM_OR_INTERESTED == True, which fixes the condition so that it makes logical sense, and makes her behavior more inline with every other Companion with a teachable specialization.Valentinian (talk) 21:27, May 30, 2011 (UTC)
Trouble unlocking from Morrigan too Edit
She still wont teach me
1/ Approval is 100 (love)
2/ Did her quest (Flemeth's grimoire)
3/ I am a Mage
I wonder what I am missing. Do I need talking to her outside the camp.
Thank God it's not just me!! Maybe its because I'm a Mage? But, why wouldn't she be willing to teach the 1 class that could actually use the Specialization?--220.127.116.11 20:20, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
- From what I've read around the boards, Morrigan is sort of strange and buggy. If your approval gets too high (100 is too high), then she won't teach you Shapeshifter anymore. However, once a specialization is unlocked, it's unlocked forever on that profile. Your two options are to make her angry and lower her approval, learn the shapeshifter, and then load your save. It will be unlocked still. The other option is to do the same thing but from an earlier saved game where her approval is lower. Off the top of my head, I think she starts teaching it as low as 25-30 approval and no need for romance.
A123456 20:26, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
Her approval has to be below 30
Shapeshifter Build Edit
Perhaps I am one of the few who truly enjoys being a Shapeshifter. With Blood Mage as a second class, I am able to dwindle my HP down to next to nothing using spells, and then switch to Flying Swarm and continue with the assault. With a high enough Magic and Constitution, these tactics have taken me far. Add spells such as Mass Paralysis and Crushing Prison and enemies simply wait for Flying Swarm to refuel your HP while damaging. True, there may be more effective builds, but for one that is more unique Shapeshifters can come in handy.
Pairing Shapeshifter with Spirit Healer can work about the same as it might for pairing it with Arcane Warrior. Using the bear or spider forms, and then reverting back to heal, has certain advantages. At least for a character who is not the same as every other mage out there.
18.104.22.168 12:36, November 28, 2009 (UTC)
Best time is the first time. Edit
Morrigan will only teach you to be a Shapeshifter if her approval rating is neutral or below. Being that when you first meet her in the game your approval rating with her is exactly neutral, the best time to unlock this specialization is the very first time you are at the party camp!
Just get into the dialogue concerning shapeshifting and ask her about teaching. Afterwards, exit the dialogue and talk to her again. The dialogue option for unlocking the specialization should be there. Easiest specialization unlock in the game.
On the shapeshifter Edit
Shapeshifting is very useful. If you want to cast spells and nuke THEN NUKE! Nothing's forcing you to take a shape to fight something like Flemeth Dragon, for cripes sake. If Flemeth's dragon form could be compared to a PC Shapeshifter's spider/bear/swarm forms then if she had only fought in human form she'dve needed only wave her little finger and the party would've burned to ash.
My shapeshifter/blood mage is primarily a nuker who uses his shapes when too much magic is overkill, not to mention draining. Spider or bear help simplify easy/normal fights, while swarm is useful for multitasking, regaining HP and travelling quickly. While I'd definitely appreciate it if the designers upped the bar on the shapes a bit and made them useful even against semi-major battles I realize doing this can be difficult without cause an imbalance. And the analogies people use these days...
Any mage with the shapeshifter specialization is still a mage and therefore should fight his serious battles as a mage. Arcane Warriors are just mages who think being able to switch to a tanker is cool, but in the end there's a difference between being one or the other and in the end you're forced to choose or just save your Arcane Warrior skills for emergenices... good luck with that if you've got a good strategy and a good party. Spirit Healers heal and buff almost to the exclusion of everything else, so yeah... And finally Blood Mages are born to keep casting offensive stuff. And the Shapeshifter? A specialization to help keep simple things simple.
I fail too see why people think this specialization is "gimped". They say the forms are not very durable, but since you can't use poultices while in any of the animal forms then it should be obvious enough that shapeshifting for far too long is bad for your health.They say the forms are not very damaging, but we're taking about a MAGE here. What's to stop a mage from going Fireball->Earthquake->Blizzard->Chain Lightning->Inferno->Shapeshift:Spider? He can then Web + Poison Spit those who try to escape the AoE and Overwhelm those who succeed. Or he can go Fireball->Earthquake->Chain Lightning->Shapeshift:Bear/Flying Swarm, and use lots of + Physical Resistance items so he's immune to knockdown while he finishes off opponents. Alistair can even help if he has Shield Wall + Shield Expertise, while other characters use ranged weapons/nukes. And changing back into human form only takes an instant, if you need to cast your spells all over again. Try it out for yourselves. Sure Arcane Warrior is great because he can tank, Spirit Healer is useful for keeping people alive and Blood Mage is just brutal, but Shapeshifter is pretty scary if you only use his forms along with his magic. And why, O why do people keep giving out builds that force the Shapeshifter to spend an extended amount of time shapeshifted?
It's a MAGE class for crying out loud. Even Arcane Warriors abuse mage sustainables.
Shapeshifter (beta) table move Edit
I took the bold step of moving the Shapeshifter (beta) table from the main article to a research subpage.
- I think the table is a great idea; it will help players better understand how to make use the Specialization.
- On the other hand, the table is still in development. Information is being verified and folks are still working on how best to present it.
Normally, beta articles/sections belong in a user or even a public sandbox. A research subpage offers the best of both worlds: the data is readily available and folks can work on it without confusing the ready-for-prime-time info of the main article.
im sorry but i thought spellpower doesnt affect the attributes of the shapeshifter because of a glitch and theyre determined by strenght and dexterity if im wrong please correct me i just thought i say it cause the article states otherwise
Physical Attributes Edit
There's a sentence about Spider being the only form that makes use of Strength and Dexterity in combat (referring for Dexterity to Poison Spit and Defense). However, I haven't seen anything indicating that bears or bear forms do not have a Defense statistic - which is invariably Dexterity-based, yes?
- ... and don't Strength and Dexterity both affect melee Attack? Or is that only a "whichever is higher" thing?
- so, does the sentence have any validity? i'm assuming someone just got slightly confused after considering that the Swarm form has no use for Strength or Dexterity...--Yeti magi (talk) 06:09, January 19, 2012 (UTC)