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The red lyrium dragon is stated as not being an old god, end of story. If it had been there would have been a blight, it would have been much more powerful etc. If there had been an eight old god it would have been mentioned, at least presuming that the tevinters worshipped him. Corypheous was quite obviously a follower of Dumat and I do not see why the Architect could not have helped the dwarf, presuming he was one of the magisters. You also seem have gotten the numbers of the elven pantheon quite wrong: there were nine of the creator gods (including Fen'Harel) and an unknown number of the forgotten ones. [[User:Caspoi|Caspoi]] ([[User talk:Caspoi|talk]]) 16:08, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
 
The red lyrium dragon is stated as not being an old god, end of story. If it had been there would have been a blight, it would have been much more powerful etc. If there had been an eight old god it would have been mentioned, at least presuming that the tevinters worshipped him. Corypheous was quite obviously a follower of Dumat and I do not see why the Architect could not have helped the dwarf, presuming he was one of the magisters. You also seem have gotten the numbers of the elven pantheon quite wrong: there were nine of the creator gods (including Fen'Harel) and an unknown number of the forgotten ones. [[User:Caspoi|Caspoi]] ([[User talk:Caspoi|talk]]) 16:08, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
   
:Blackwall is stated as being a Grey Warden. End of story? Nah. There might be a piece missing, and awaiting revelation. It just wasn't explained thoroughly in the game, it was left ambigious. Come to mind, I myself don't remember where it was explained as such that it is just a high dragon. But it may be a mistake on my part, and if so, I apologise. As for it being more powerful, as I said, it was a weak Old God, so weak that the Tevinter abandoned the worship of it, and thus it wasn't as strong as a regular archdemon. As for there not being a blight, we don't know how Corypheus came to own it. It is possible he sent Grey Wardens into its layer and performed Architect's awakening on it, not tainting it because Wardens don't taint. Then he corrupted it with red lyrium. And for your argument it not being mentioned, it was thousand of years ago. There are no records of the original 7 magisters who entered the Black City, and following the Blight most of the Old Gods' shrines and temples were destroyed, and the lore of the eight god with it. I know Cory was a priest of Dumat, did I say otherwise? And whilst it is possible Architect did provide the food, it is rather unlikely, as Architect is a scientist bastard, not interested in helping others (like how he gave the blight disease to Velana's sister). As for the number of elven gods, you are quite correct and I apologise for I was wrong. But on the other hand you have Flemeth aka Mythal and Solas aka Fen'Harel, and without them that makes for 7 elven gods. [[File:User signature henioo.png|15px]] [[User:Henio0|<font style="background:black"><font face="Franklin Gothic Demi"><font color="yellow">henioo</font></font></font>]] [[User Talk:Henio0|<font color="greenred"><sup> (da talk page)</sup></font>]] 08:45, December 19, 2014 (UTC)
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:Blackwall is stated as being a Grey Warden. End of story? Nah. There might be a piece missing, and awaiting revelation. It just wasn't explained thoroughly in the game, it was left ambigious. Come to mind, I myself don't remember where it was explained as such that it is just a high dragon. But it may be a mistake on my part, and if so, I apologise. As for it being more powerful, as I said, it was a weak Old God, so weak that the Tevinter abandoned the worship of it, and thus it wasn't as strong as a regular archdemon. As for there not being a blight, we don't know how Corypheus came to own it. It is possible he sent Grey Wardens into its layer and performed Architect's awakening on it, not tainting it because Wardens don't taint. Then he corrupted it with red lyrium. And for your argument it not being mentioned, it was thousand of years ago. There are no records of the original 7 magisters who entered the Black City, and following the Blight most of the Old Gods' shrines and temples were destroyed, and the lore of the eight god with it. Plus there is that codex entry I mentioned, the one you get after the Astrarium in Hinterlands, and Kewpies was kind enough to provide this quote: "a sea creature or an unknown eight Old God, stricken from records". And I know Cory was a priest of Dumat, did I say otherwise? And whilst it is possible Architect did provide the food, it is rather unlikely, as Architect is a scientist bastard, not interested in helping others (like how he gave the blight disease to Velana's sister). As for the number of elven gods, you are quite correct and I apologise for I was wrong. But on the other hand you have Flemeth aka Mythal and Solas aka Fen'Harel, and without them that makes for 7 elven gods. [[File:User signature henioo.png|15px]] [[User:Henio0|<font style="background:black"><font face="Franklin Gothic Demi"><font color="yellow">henioo</font></font></font>]] [[User Talk:Henio0|<font color="greenred"><sup> (da talk page)</sup></font>]] 08:45, December 19, 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 08:48, 19 December 2014

Forums: Index > Lore DiscussionThe original Magisters, and the eight Old God theories
Note: This topic has been unedited for 3387 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not continue it unless it really needs a response.

I've got two things I'd like to talk about, which are vaguely connected, so I decided to just start one topic on them. It's about codex entries which may foreshadow/explain the story of DA:I an beyond.

First off, the Red lyrium dragon. Throughout the game it is assumed that it is an Old God turned archdemon. And what if that is true, but it wasn't any of the seven? It was another, unknown, forgotten Old God. I cannot find the codex entry on the wiki yet, but after you finish one of the astrarium in Hinterlands, it says there is one constelation that is meant to be about a dragon, but seperate from all the other 7, and the codex entry suggests it may be a forgotten Old God, less powerful than the others.

The next thing is about Codex entry: A Different Darkspawn? and another one which I cannot find now. In the other codex entry it says that there were 7 original Magisters, as were the 7 Old Gods, which assumingly means each one of them served a different god. In the linked codex entry it mentions 1 "talkign darkspawn" offering food and 3 talking to each other, and it's suggested the letter is 20 years old, which places it about 10 years before Architect's awakening experiments. Which means they weren't Disciples, but talking darkpawn like Corypheus, aka the original Magisters. I also suspect, as probably most of you, that Architect is the same as Corypheus, and that there are at least 3 other out there like that. Why 3 and not 4? Because the codex entry says that when the three darkspawn ("dressed like kings" - magisters) met, one of them killed another and ate him, which makes one of them dead already. And another was feeding the wounded dwarf, and it doesn't seem like it was Architect, which means there is at least one ancient magister who isn't an ahole, but likely rather a good guy.

So in summary, I think the red lyrium dragon may have been an actual Old God, but an unknown weaker one, and that there are at least five others like Corypheus: one is Architect, one who fed the dwarf, and two who were arguing. One is definitelu dead, and that leaves another one that we have not heard of as of yet.

Another thing which I also find interesting is that there are 7 elven gods + Fen'Harel, there are 7 Old Gods + Maker, and if the Forbidden Ones are the elven gods, that means there are 3 of them, and 3 Forgotten Ones + Fen'Harel. One could theorise that each high dragon/archdemon responds to a different elven Creator and that they were all the same thing. And there was another, weaker one - Fen'Harel/Maker, who also had a dragon, but a weaker one, which would be the red lyrium dragon. User signature henioo henioo (da talk page) 11:14, December 17, 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the first part, it is possible, but he is then apparently *much* weaker than the other ones. However, wasn't the conclusion that this is just a corrupted high dragon?
The codex entry is called Constellation: Draconis aka "High dragon". Following points are made in the entry:
  • most dragon imagery in ancient Tevinter was reserved for the Old Gods (portrayed as specific dragons) -
  • so why why would they dedicate a separate constellation to dragons in general?
  • older drawings show Draconis as more serpentine -
  • could it depict "a sea creature or an unknown eight Old God, stricken from records"?
Kewpies (talk) 13:41, December 17, 2014 (UTC)


Old Gods are onto High Dragons, as Gods are onto men (i think that was the quote. Couldn't simply the old gods be the formless ones? they didnt really have forms so they took dragon forms? tho i don't think its plausible tho. Because if the old gods are the elven gods, it would make no sense for the elven gods to be stuck inside an eluvian dimension and still be able to become Archdemons. And it was pretty much decided in game that Corphyfish's dragon was a corrupted high dragon, no? - Faye Cousland

The red lyrium dragon is stated as not being an old god, end of story. If it had been there would have been a blight, it would have been much more powerful etc. If there had been an eight old god it would have been mentioned, at least presuming that the tevinters worshipped him. Corypheous was quite obviously a follower of Dumat and I do not see why the Architect could not have helped the dwarf, presuming he was one of the magisters. You also seem have gotten the numbers of the elven pantheon quite wrong: there were nine of the creator gods (including Fen'Harel) and an unknown number of the forgotten ones. Caspoi (talk) 16:08, December 17, 2014 (UTC)

Blackwall is stated as being a Grey Warden. End of story? Nah. There might be a piece missing, and awaiting revelation. It just wasn't explained thoroughly in the game, it was left ambigious. Come to mind, I myself don't remember where it was explained as such that it is just a high dragon. But it may be a mistake on my part, and if so, I apologise. As for it being more powerful, as I said, it was a weak Old God, so weak that the Tevinter abandoned the worship of it, and thus it wasn't as strong as a regular archdemon. As for there not being a blight, we don't know how Corypheus came to own it. It is possible he sent Grey Wardens into its layer and performed Architect's awakening on it, not tainting it because Wardens don't taint. Then he corrupted it with red lyrium. And for your argument it not being mentioned, it was thousand of years ago. There are no records of the original 7 magisters who entered the Black City, and following the Blight most of the Old Gods' shrines and temples were destroyed, and the lore of the eight god with it. Plus there is that codex entry I mentioned, the one you get after the Astrarium in Hinterlands, and Kewpies was kind enough to provide this quote: "a sea creature or an unknown eight Old God, stricken from records". And I know Cory was a priest of Dumat, did I say otherwise? And whilst it is possible Architect did provide the food, it is rather unlikely, as Architect is a scientist bastard, not interested in helping others (like how he gave the blight disease to Velana's sister). As for the number of elven gods, you are quite correct and I apologise for I was wrong. But on the other hand you have Flemeth aka Mythal and Solas aka Fen'Harel, and without them that makes for 7 elven gods. User signature henioo henioo (da talk page) 08:45, December 19, 2014 (UTC)