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Obviously hes and idiot savant, like rain man with a freeze spell.

i have an interesting theory about sandal,he's been found wandering in the deep roads affected by lyrium exposure. Then we have a primeval thaig, not mentioned by dwarven memories,a new kind of lyrium in some raw state, signs of temple (and we all know dwarfs worship their paragons) but also "things that could only have been made by magic". Note that when sandals get lost he shows to be very familiar with that part of the deep roads, i think he's already been there and that was when he got exposed to that strange lyrium that gave him his magic ability

What is Sandel?

The poll was created at 18:25 on April 20, 2011, and so far 256 people voted.

Not many of these kicking about in the forums now is there?

Right, I was thinking about the possibility of Sandal being a half human half dwarf. Personally I thought they would be taller than dwarves and shorter than humans. Sandal however is the height of a dwarf but I don't think he is facially similar to that of a common dwarf, his facial features are more akin to that of a human. I think that it may be possible that he was abandoned in the deep roads because his mother perhaps slept with a human and dwarfs would generally frown upon it. Sandal has also on 2 occasions wiped out squads of darkspawn and frozen an ogre. When asked about how he did it he said NOT enchantment. This may be because he is a human/dwarf that has mage abilities that no one really knows about because he is, well, Sandal.... Desmond Cousland (talk) 23:55, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

How about this one? We all know the Dark Ritual from DA:O right? And there is still a possibility that Flemmeth had a lot of other daughters besides Morrigan. What if one of the previous daughters did some sort of ritual with a dwarf? I think everyone more or less agrees that Sandal knows magic (NOT ENCHANTMENT!), and that being caused by lyrium influence seems kind of... unlikely. Also, him mentioning that there is an old scary lady standing next to his bed (With an evil laugh) ,ight be just Flemmeth checking up on her grandson?

But yeah, Sandal had enough smaller roles in everything, so it's very likely that he will return being important.. The whole Flemmeth thing really bugs me though. Basically the only things that I noticed with Flemmeth, is ofcourse the amulet and the reference Sandal made. But yeah, I still need to finish up my decent DA:O playthrough, and do Witch Hunt with that also. I might have some more interest for her then. Adante (talk) 01:26, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, that half dwarf-half human theory may not be totally bonkers. Especially if the father was a human. We know dwarfs take the caste of the same sex parent, so if Sandal's father was a human he would be Casteless. If the mother was an Upper Caste, well we know she wouldn't have been able to keep him. She'd either have to become Casteless or abandon him in the Deep Roads. Now how he would survive is a thought. Maybe she didn't abandon him right away? As he was older he was able to defend himself with his magic. I do think if we ever find out his history, it's going to be very interesting. Especially after that little Prophecy in DAII. Hay Julay (talk) 01:33, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

I remember reading that a half-human, half-dwarf is called a halfling. Know what else is called a halfling? A hobbit, which is the height of a dwarf, but with the general shape of a human. I don't know, just pointing that out. Commander Cousland (talk) 01:48, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but Hobbits are shorter than dwarves. *slaps you with her single volume LotR book* KNOW YOUR TOLKIEN LORE! Tabriel Cousland (talk) 21:39, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
  • Grabs book and slaps Tabriel* Halflings are half the height of a human is aproximitley a DA dwarf height.CrowInvictus (talk) 11:11, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
  • Hurls each book of her Millenium Edition like shuriken* Hobbits are considered unusually tall if they make it over three feet. Dwarves average about four feet! Don't talk to me about these DA dwarves! Only Tolkien's dwarrodelfs are true dwarves! DA dwarves are a lie!* Tabriel Cousland (talk) 17:37, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

We never see Sandal and Flemeth together, do we....Gruedragon (talk) 13:10, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

We don't SEE them together, yet Sandal says "the old lady" comes into his room at night and stares at him with a scary laugh. Bodahn shuts him up rather quickly saying how there's no old lady. You know who you don't see together. Bodahn and Flemith. Bodahn also wasn't in witch hunt yet Sandal was around that time wouldn't flemtih be "dead" and Hawke have been bringing her amulet up the mountain....hmmm...

I did post a theroy on Sandal and Flemith in one of the 9001 DA3 theroy threads that in short says that Sandal and flemeth maybe the 2 surviving old gods. Sandal is just, umm, being restrained possibly by lyrium poisoning. Then some other silly stuff, but I forgot the bacon. I'm not sure but I have a feeling Sandal will end up being a great The fat kid in American Dad when he stops taking his meds and Flemeth will end up being the good crazy dragon lady who is here to stop him. Or some prophecy that the spawn of a grey warden and a witch of the wilds can either save the world or something something dark side. Flemith is just pulling the strings for what ever reason.

anywho, I can see Flemith and Sandal being a clash of the titans, so to speak.TheSabi (talk) 14:44, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

@Sabi very unlikely as the darkspawn would have tainted him when he inexplicably showed up just before the archdemon fight

When I clicked on the link to this thread I half expected someone to have proposed that Sandal was the Maker. Or Fen'Harel :P
Anyway I don't think we'll find out anything about Sandal ever. He'll just be one of those unexplained mysteries because maybe the writers put him there as a joke, to be an unexplained mystery. Or maybe I am wrong and he will turn out to be a savior of the world who surpasses the Warden and the Champion (and any other heroes to come) in valour and strength. Now that'll be play as Sandal. Although how we'll be able to talk with companions if all our character ever said was 'enchantment' I do not know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) ]::People HAVE already suggested that Sandal is the Maker, months ago. Along with other ludicrously cliche theories, such as Flemeth being the Maker. Not sure about Fen'Harel, but there HAVE been theories posited linking Sandal or Flemeth with the Old Gods, and then linking the Old Gods with the Elven Creators. Tabriel Cousland (talk) 21:44, April 19, 2011 (UTC)

I think it's all just a big in game joke. (because how else would they put in a final battle supply drop?) but then again there may be something more to it, but it's still unlikely based on how the plotline is serious and not a FFRPG (Frickin' Funny Role Playing Game)--Dragon X (talk) 20:48, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

So far the only thing pointing towards Sandal posessing any kind of magic is when he proclaims "Not enchantment" when asked about the Frozen Ogre... Which even I found pretty darn impressive. Also Sandal n Flemeth? I really doubt it. Now I said I really doubt it, not that it's impossible... Now, I can understand Sandal defeating Darkspawn, but take note that in DA2 all the corpses infront of him are all Fade Creatures even a Pride Demon can be seen. Makes me wonder if the Lyrium exposure has somehow connected him to the Fade in a subconcious level since he's as Bodhan says a Savant. Also if you've noticed Sandal speaks "ALOT" more then in DA:O even forming complete sentence. Another thing Bodhan states is that they sought answers in the circle but that they were never going back there again. So apparently the Circle of Magi got interest in Sandals expertise even tho there are several Dwarven Enchanters according to Bodhan, so what makes Sandal so special in the eyes of the circle compared to everyone else? (talk) 22:18, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

Wtf, I see all of you mentioning what Sandal did, but no one is mentioning the Stone he holds and gives to Hawke. Did none of you notice that?

You do know he made that stone right? It's a Rune or in Sandals world an Enchantment, what they are considering is the Frozen Ogre which according to Sandal was Not an Enchantment. (talk) 00:11, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

You also get a staff that is the same design as the Lampost In Winter. Desmond Cousland (talk) 02:07, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Ehrm. I believe he said "Rock Enchantment", not "Not Enchantment"

I would disagree there, I have replayed that bit 3 times now and I'm fairly certain that it is "not enchantment" Desmond Cousland (talk) 18:05, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it is "not enchantment" - i know, cause i play with subtitles. (talk) 18:13, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Come to think of it so do I, I remember the emphasis of the not. Desmond Cousland (talk) 18:32, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Is anyone thinking of the Primeval Thaig? I know this sounds a lil bonkers considering the Primeval Thaig is thought to be 10,000 years old. But if anyone remembers the codex, it said that much of the thaig was built with magic yet dwarves dont possess magic. Dwarves dont possess magic but Sandal does (at least it seems by freezing that ogre). Is it possible that Sandal is in someway related to this old mysterious thaig? Afterall he was found in the Deep Rhoads. Anyways, just a thought. I thought the game didnt reveal enough about that mysterious thaig, Im hoping more is revealed in Add-ons or the next game.Nickerbocker07 (talk) 03:14, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

your all forgetting one thing, ENCHANTMENT! -Nithilus

My interpretation was always that Sandal had some kind of magic ability from overexposure to lrium in the deep roads. If he was left there early enough it may have hal;ted his mental development but replaced it with raw lyrium, giving him powers ( as opposssed to Fenris who only has the tattoos and give him minor abilities).This would make him an amazing creature and a useful character for upcoming plots! But if he has some kind of magical talents, OR even just a strong connection to lyrium that produces mage-like abilities (which is more likely due to mages being unable to enchant), is it not possible for him to have prophetic dreams? Obviously he wouldnt understand them but think about it. 1: Possible Lyrium connection 2: been in the deeps roads when the red lrium was discovered AND 3 (SPOILERS) Meredith makes the red lyruim into a sword that turns her into a mad scary lady! so my theory is Sandal formed some kind of bond through his lyrium powers with the red lyruim idol and therefore could see in his dreams what meredith was becoming. Let me know what you think :)-Jatman

i never heard anything about scary lady until after hawkes mother dies and yeah she was messed up when she died could he be seeing her ghost? Another thing what makes you think hes half and half or an old god or some kin to Flemeth, if anyone is an old god its her she was in two places at once turns into a purple dragon contines body snatching probably to avoid being tainted wasnt there and old god of trickery or something close perhaps thats her she knows to much of the wardens i could go on and on and on but sandal his head is empty i could be wrong and i probably am but i think he is a joke i took ruck more serious than i take sandal.

Most likely just a savant. Look at the savants of the world. Kim Peek, for example. Capable of things most can only dream of, with minimal understanding of the world. Sandal being found in the deep roads may simply be because he wandered away like in DA2. If he was with an expedition that was wiped out after he wandered off it makes sense. He seems to have no sense of danger. His enchanting ability is possibly so much better because he doesn't over think what he's doing. He knows what needs to be done and how to do it, and simply does it. Enchanting to Sandal is like what breathing is to us. Something you do optimally without thinking about it. Mcalihe (talk) 12:07, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

You are forgetting Garin the merchant in Orzammar. He was over exposed to lyrium and it seems to only make him a nervous wreck. The only way I see a Dwarf being able to use magic if if they a surface bred or half human (or elf for that matter or are a darkspawn) and then being over exposed to lyrium. The Dwarfs loss of their "stone sense" or the fact that the have the minor possibility that they can use magic due to a non Dwarven parent seems to be the most likely possibility. Desmond Cousland (talk) 12:32, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

Oh and the magic that the thaig may posess could be more likely due to the Elves. I would say the Tevinter Imperium as they have a long history with the Dwarves but if the primeval thaig is is 10,000 years old it would be more likely Elven magic. Desmond Cousland (talk) 12:52, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

I believe that Sandal does have magical abilities. Seeing as how BioWare has shown they will write what they want over the innumerable player decisions, I believe that Sandal's new Not Enchantment abilities were taught to him by Dagna the Dwarf Magical Scholar. This would have occurred during Sandal's time visiting the Circle. I don't believe Sandal is an Old God, but I do believe he is the first step of the Dwarves reclaiming magical talents. Yes, reclaiming. I believe things in the games so far have bucked the common ingame truth of "Dwarves Don't Do Magic" and I believe the games are leading us to the conclusion that Dwarves did have magic at one time. But that this knowledge was forgotten and the abilities stripped away. Perhaps all due to the creation of the taint, Darkspawn and invasion of 'beyond the Fade' by mortals. -Zambingo (talk) 14:38, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

I believe that Sandal does have contact with Flemeth. I believe her 'evil laugh' isn't evil, but just ominous. I believe Flemeth has interest in Sandal because he is the first relink to the Dwarves' past. I believe that Flemeth isn't an Old God, but that she is The Maker. I believe Flemeth aka The Maker was tainted during the invasion of 'Beyond the Fade' by the mortals. I believe this taint drove The Maker mad and in a divine, madness driven plan The Maker split Itself into fragments. Possibly as an attempt to save parts of Itself from being fully tainted. I believe these fragments of the Maker then 'fell to Earth' and became numerous people in Thedas' history... Flemeth, Andraste, Asha'bellanar, and the Elven God that was separate from the pantheon and tricked the gods into sleeping. I believe Flemeth aka The Maker's grand plan is to reunite Itself thru eradicating the Taint and reclaiming It's realm 'Beyond the Fade' from the Taint. -Zambingo (talk) 14:27, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

@ Desmond Cousland I know that Garin guy went a bit bonkers, but if Sandal had potentially been in the deep roads at an extremely young age and Bodahn Feddic found him he could still develop differently. If anyone gets exposed to something that powerful during their development as opposed to a dwarf with a fully developed magic resistance, then its still possible he may be effected by it. -

I've got a couple of theories. 1 is that Sandal is put in for light relief. After all, he tends to show up having decimated a wide variety of bad guys just before a major fight. 2 is that Sandal is the embodiment of magic. He is something similar to Justice/Anders except on a much grander scale and can be fully controlled. Mondrak (talk) 16:12, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

@ Zambingo, Dagna went to the circle to study theory, not magic. How could she have taught Sandal anything? I think that your theory of Flemmeth being the maker is too far fetched. Desmond Cousland (talk) 16:34, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

Dagna can't use magic, but was studying it's theory aka it's applications, processes etc. etc. She should easily be able to teach magic users how to better themselves and more about the talents they have. It's like the old sports saying, "those that can't play... coach." As for your opinion on the Flemeth/Maker idea... Hey, too each our own. :) However I have to strenuously insist the idea is not far fetched at all and fits well with many of the ingame hints about Flemeth and things cryptically said by Flemeth. Also the idea flows well with the philosophical idea that "God" has many faces (being many things to many different cultures). The twist here is that The Maker has It's many faces and names purely as a result of the invasion into "Beyond the Fade" by mortals. This then focuses Dragon Age's overall story about the Darkspawn as the restoration of both The Maker and It's realm. Finally just because in this idea The Maker exists, that doesn't mean The Chantry is right about anything. That's two separate issues. --Zambingo (talk) 17:53, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

How about this for a theory - Sandal is a mentally challenged dwarf. His parents were possibly overexposed to lyrium causing our favorite enchanter to have certain affinity for magic. This theory also conveniently obeys Occam's Razor. :) -- tierrie talk contr 18:02, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

A possibility, but in that theory, why would his parents abandon him in the deep roads? Desmond Cousland (talk) 19:52, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

______________________________ I have a rather interesting idea that I'm surprised no one else has mentioned yet. Sandal could be a 'Dreamer'. Anyone remember those from what Marethari said in the 'Night Terrors' quest. Dreamers can affect and change the Fade in a way that it completely blocked off to everyone else, hence why a Dreamer becoming an Abomination would be world changing. Now, here's another point. I believe that Flemeth is a Dreamer...a Dreamer possessed by a Pride demon. So perhaps when Sandal mentions 'the old lady with the scary laugh', it is Flemeth in the fade, because remember, there's basically two Flemeth's now. As Flemeth puts it, only a 'very small piece' managed to survive. Maybe Flemeth is trying to do something to Sandal in the Fade, because Sandal is like her, able to influence the Fade directly. --TheVictorianMuffin (talk) 21:38, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

@ TheVictorianMuffin The only problems are that Morrigan says in Witch Hunt that Flemmeth is not a demon or an abomination, and that she is not even truly human. Also, in Awakening, if Ogren gets sent to the fade by The First with your party, he says he shouldn't be there because dwarves don't dream, they sleep like the stone. That could just be Ogren since he's always drunk though. Unless Sandal is half human, then maybe. I'm thinking Flemmeth is something like the Lady of the Forest. A spirit given consciousness through a binding. The lady says Zathrian gave her form where there was none, and gave her consciousness. She may end up needing Sandals' enchanting skills to complete her plan, since he's even better than the tranquil, and even other dwarven enchanters. Mcalihe (talk) 00:25, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

@Mcalihe (WARNING FOR SPOILERS FOLKS, LOTS OF 'EM) I don't really consider Morrigan to be an authority on her mother, mostly because it seems Flemeth lies to her in particular to control her. I know it sounds horrible, but it's what she does. In DA2, even, Flemeth kind of states that she keeps Morrigan guessing when you ask her about Morrigan on Sundermount, and you say "I don't know if she's your daughter or your enemy?" and Flemeth says, "Neither is she," clearly implying that Morrigan actually knows very little about her mother. The only thing I can really see giving Morrigan any kind of Knowledge on her mother, is the tomes she finds, and for all we know, Flemeth could have written lies into those tomes, knowing that one day, Morrigan would find them. (Let's be honest here people, Flemeth is clearly able to see the future in some sort. I'm not saying she's God, or almighty or anything, but she seems to be able to foreshadow basically everything.)

ALSO, Flemeth could very much be a Dreamer possessed by a Pride Demon (Or some other extremely powerful Demon,) because I highly doubt a Dreamer thats been possessed would be anything like a normal Abomination, the way Pride Demon himself says it, "We could have changed the world...". No regular Abomination has the power to 'change the world.'

If Flemeth had been like the Lady of the Forest, someone would have to have Bound her. It clearly says in Flemeth's history (Which is Canon), that she was a human and all that. Morrigan also admits that Flemeth is clearly able to influence the Fade in ways no one else can. Morrigan states that Flemeth will come back, that her Spirit will go to the Fade when she dies, and she'll manage to worm her way back. Getting back across the Veil, when you're dead, and NOT being an Arcane Horror, or some other undead creature sounds like a Dreamer ability to me.

NOW, for Sandal. Oghren was a full blooded dwarf, nothing else possibly could have mixed in. He's as Dwarf as they come. But Sandal? Bodahn claims he found Sandal in the Deep Roads, assuming the above theories are correct, Sandal could in fact be half-human, or even half-Elven. (Elven seems more likely to me, because of his eyes and fair skin. But thats just me,). NOW, assuming the above theories are NOT true, The Deep Roads is a dangerous place, filled with Darkspawn taint, Blight disease and what else? Lyrium...and as shown in DA2, Lyrium can become extremely corrupted. So for all intents and purposes, Sandal could very well be a Dreamer.

Also, his incredible enchanting abilities could be laid at the feet of him being a Dreamer. A Dreamer can influence the Fade in powerful and special ways. And where does the magic for runes come from, the Fade. Perhaps he uses his Dreaming abilities as a basis for his Enchanting.

ALSO, (I know this post is hecka long, sorry.) When he states that he sees 'The Old Lady with the scary laugh'. He doesn't say how he saw her. Perhaps he nodded off because he was tired, and Flemeth came to him in a dream. Interesting to think about, huh?--TheVictorianMuffin (talk) 05:12, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

Hey Guys

I was playing DA2 on PC, and during part 2 I kept clicking on Sandal (while he is in the mansion) just to hear his responses. What I got was really creepy. He said something about the "Dark One" being free and all again possessing the "gift" in a really creepy voice. It sounded like some prophecy. I didn't write it down because if was unexpected, and I missed some detail about the Fade. I tried to repeat the dialogue by clicking on him again, but in never happened. Did anyone else get this? Please try because in might be about the plot for DA3. I haven't finished the game yet, so if this is a plot spoiler, just ignore me.

Sandals prophecy was added to the quotes section of his page. After reading it, it made me think of the the Eleni Zinovia, the Tevinter Statue in the Ferelden circle during the Witch Hunt DLC. She says something similar. Eleni Zinovia --"Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And thus shall I endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again." and before you close the tares in the veil "The prison is breached. I see the encroaching darkness. The... the shadow will consume all...". In DA 2 Sandal says "One day the magic will come back - all of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see." Maybe Sandal is a Seer? Mcalihe (talk) 10:12, March 27, 2011 (UTC)

EDIT: A video of Sandals Prophecy was also posted on YouTube. The way he says it makes me think he is just A lot smarter that he lets on. If he is a Seer, it would explain why he just 'happens' to end up around both The Warden and Hawk when he is. Perhaps he is against Flemmeth and whatever she is trying to do and he is making sure key people succeed, because if she is a dreamer, then she may be able to influence things in a way that would even change the future a seer sees. Mcalihe (talk) 10:24, March 27, 2011 (UTC)

i have an interesting theory about sandal,he's been found wandering in the deep roads affected by lyrium exposure. Then we have a primeval thaig, not mentioned by dwarven memories,a new kind of lyrium in some raw state, signs of temple (and we all know dwarfs worship their paragons) but also "things that could only have been made by magic". Note that when sandal got lost he shows to be very familiar with that part of the deep roads, i think he's already been there and that was when he got exposed to that strange lyrium that gave him his magic skills. (i apologise for my bad english but i hope you can get my points) (talk) 11:44, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, about the "One day the magic will come back - all of it. Everyone will be just like they were." part, it is said the Elvhen once all possessed the gift of magic, so perhaps all otehr races once did as well. Even dwarves are said to have DEVELOPED a natural resistance to it. I don't know about Sandal, and what he knows or doesn't know, but I do see the merit to that Primeval Thaig theory. He probably is lyrium-addled, but maybe it was concentrated lyrium liek in that Thaig. Maybe not from that specific one, who kows how many there are, but it is a good thought. Bloodrealm (talk) 15:34, April 1, 2011 (UTC)

Wow, Sandal Theories. Just ponder that for awhile, the retarted magical dwarf has a mystery! Anyway, I would just like to point out that on 3 occasions, Sandal has surrounded himself with bodies. 1- For Drakon, DA:O 2- The Deep Roads Expedition, DA2 3- The Templar Headqauters in the Gallows (He is surrounded not by Darkspawn, but by abominations, demons, even a PRIDE demon.) So he isnt gifted by the maker to kill darkspawnm, buit maaybe to kill evil? (talk) 15:53, April 1, 2011 (UTC)

Sandal: One day the magic will come back - all of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide.
Bodahn: Huh? What's this?
Sandal: When he rises, everyone will see.
Bodahn: By the ancestors! What has gotten into you, my boy?
Sandal: Enchantment!
Bodahn: That's more like it! ( post by the unknown wizard)

I have my own theory. Oddly enough, this includes Fenris. Its no secret that Lyrium is the very essence of magic, so what if proper use of lyrium can give others magical abilities? What if sandal uses his enchantments as some sort of way to cast spells? Like a rune mage from various other games and stories! (casting spells by inscribing runes to the surface of something, or their very own flesh in fact!) Or like classic wizards from those old stories who had to read magical scripture and books and recant all their spells verbally tp cast them. and its clear that the lyrium markings Fenris has given him his unique powers, so what if Dwarves can use magic by using lyrium? (since they were practically born around it and have been living with it for years) What if a Dwarf got markings like Fenris, that could give them their powers? Just a thought. Acecurry (talk) 05:44, April 4, 2011 (UTC)

He kinda reminds me of a Genlock, using magic and being in the deep roads and dwarfs and genlocks have the same shape. Mattman862 (talk) 08:59, April 8, 2011 (UTC)

my theroy = sandals from the primeval or a primeval tiag, thus can use magic as b4 dwarfs became resistant to the fade, his behavour/slowness = family incest due to small and isolated gene pool. -norrax-

what if sandal was the main bad guy ( joke by unknown wizard)

I only read a bit of this thread, but most of wut i read was concerning Sandal being half human. Did you guys pay attention in DA2? the ancient dwarven thaig made with magic, the profane, shades, and hunger demon, all signs of mages. And then theres Sandals prophesy, and wut that shopkeep golem said, about dwarves being more than they were now, and that magic will come bak and ppl will be like they were. All this hints to the ancient dwarves having magical abilities, and somehow, Sandal is the first of the dwarven magical awakening. Roki the Bear (talk) 13:18, April 15, 2011 (UTC)

About Sandal's origins, I guess it's possible that he isn't a pureblooded dwarf. So let's supposed for a moment that this is the case. I think that Bartrand's group wasn't the first to explore the Primeval Thaig. Maybe a previous expedition did, and Sandal tagged along, or Sandal found it on his own. I think there may have been some incident with the lyrium idol, or another such source, leading to Sandal having ties with it, and maybe at this point Flemeth did something or whatever, and he ended up stumbling around the Deep Roads. So he was left lyrium-addled, and then Bodahn found him. Sandal's ties with the idol may have led him to dream about "the old lady" who could be 1)Flemeth, because, well, she's Flemeth or 2) Meredith, possibly at the time once she forged that lyrium sword. Flemeth may have opened his mind in the Deep Roads, revealing to him secrets of the Dwarves' past. Like in the prophecy of the shadows parting, I dont think dwarves were always underground. When everyone still possessed magic and maybe dwarves lived on the surface, (sorry, i'm not too familiar with the lore), maybe something happened that caused most humans and elves to lose it, and dwarves to lose it altogether. Maybe DA3 is about the return of that. Didn't someone mention that more and more mages are being born? E.g. "Mother said that there are alot more mages now than when she was a child." Maybe the return of magic has come, like a second dose of the Tevinter Imperium at full strength. Maybe what Sandal means is that when dwarves lost their magic, they went underground, or the other way around. I think he means that they will return to the surface, and all will reclaim their magic. "He" as he mentions, will probably pave the way. Maybe the next hero? Or a dwarf version of Anders?

This may be a case of putting two and two together and getting five, but what if Sandal is from Kal-Sharok? We know Bodahn found Sandal in the Deep Roads, but we don't know where he originally came from.

During the First Blight, Kal-Sharok was declared lost. But recently it was discovered that Kal-Sharok survived. How did they survive? Maybe they survived using "boom" and "not enchantment". If the Kal-Sharaok dwarves have somehow rediscovered magic, that could explain why they are reclusive and reluctant to reestablish communication with the outside world. Kal-Sharok could also have some sort of tie to the Primeval Thaig.

With DA3 rumored to take place in Orlais, and Kal-Sharok lies between Orlais and the Anderfels, I think it likely that the protagonist of DA3 could end up visiting Kal-Sharok.

Again, this could just be me putting two and two together and getting five. Gruedragon (talk) 17:31, April 15, 2011 (UTC)

I like your theory TheVictorianMuffin, and think it's all likwly, but what if sandal is like the starchild random encounter or could he be the makers son? like jesus but shorter.--The quick draw (talk) 20:36, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think Sandal has anything to do with-...... Wait.. isn't EA overlooking bioware now? In that case, I bet Sandal is the maker. :-P Thehealeroftru (talk) 21:11, April 15, 2011 (UTC)

I read that someone said that Sandal was familiar with the ancient thaig because he wandered around inside it. That doesn't prove he knows his way around. That just proves he is familiar on how to get lost. What they were trying to do is raise questions as to how Sandal was able to take out so many darkspawn by himself. Just as he did in Fort Drakon in Origins during the final battle. Bodan said that Sandal wandered off. Sandal's sense of direction is probably bass ackwards to begin with. Now I know the rune he had is gonna come up in a counter to my post so I am going to head this one off at the pass. What makes you think he didn't have it already on him? He could have made it there in the thaig. The little guy can enchant anything so it isn't a stretch to say that he can't make runes. Getting lost doesn't prove anything, other then he's good at not knowing his current location. (talk) 03:55, April 17, 2011 (UTC)

^ That's true. Wait, which rune are we talking about here? Still, in theory it's possible, and the lyrium exposure could have come from the idol. Even if he had been there before though, I wouldn't say he was familiar with it, either. If he had been there before then he's probably forgotten about it. That's my guess anyway.

Well I just came up with this theroy randomly but isn't the OGB male maybe he is the one Sandal was talking about in his very creepy whispering voice... "When he rises, everyone will see" --Xxellenmaysongxx (talk) 15:37, April 19, 2011 (UTC)

Am I the only one that thinks Sandal is exactly what they say he is, a savant? Look at his face, the way he talks, the way he scratches his butt in public. He seems like an autistic savant. He knows nothing about social graces and little about communication but absolutely everything about one topic, enchantment. There are people like this in the real world, autistic people who are experts at one thing but have very poor communication skills. Sandal is like that.

How did he kill those darkspawn, the demons, and freeze the Ogre? Bodahn says something about him making bombs when Sandal asks for salamanders in Hawke's estate. I think he just used some kind of magical item he made to defeat the darkspawn and demons.

As for the prophecy? Personally all I've heard Sandal say is that he was seeing a scary lady, which I assumed was Meredith. Meredith had become so possessed by whatever that red lyrim is that Sandal, who is an expert with lyrim, was seeing her apparition when he worked with it. Only Sandal could see her because only Sandal is so familiar with lyrim that he would notice the apparition. I think this speaks more to the power of the red lyrim than anything else.

It could be Flemeth, but again this would only be due to Flemeth's ability to be in more than one place at a time. She'd appear to Sandal because hey, who would take him seriously?

Or maybe all lyrim sings to Sandal like the red lyrim does to normal people. But because of his skills, he does not go insane, instead it just makes that much better at his craft.

Overall, I doubt Sandal will be important to the game's plot. He's more like an in-game joke or easter-egg.

Sandal Amell (talk) 20:40, April 19, 2011 (UTC)

If Sandal didn't know his way around the was he able to find he way back when Hawke finds him??? 0:40, April 19, 2011 Lazer

I do believe that sandel will become more important in later games. He just seems way too powerful to remain just a servant. The dude can clear a room of darkspawn & demons, and somehow "not enchant" an ogre. I want to know what "not enchantment" is. Is that the work of a mage, Maker, Old God, a demon? His enchanting did spark the interest of the empress of Orlais. (or was it the Divine, i don't remember?) Either way a very powerful Orlesian. That says something about how important he will become. I kinda suspect he will turn out to be something similar Verbal/Keyser Söze from The Usual Supects. Someone who pretends to be a simpleton, but in reality is very intelligent & calculating. (I see him as a good version of Keyser Söze) Well, i would like that to be the case at least. Ser Pouce-a-lot (talk) 22:05, April 19, 2011 (UTC)

Im a big fan of the Maker theory, I read somewere that someone thinks he is the maker in discuise come back to see if whe world has changed but using the most unlikely charicter in order to do so he is fa fa to powerful to not be someone/thing important

Long time follower, first time commenter, but here’s my theory. Since the Primeval Thaig was at least partially created by magic, I think there was a time long ago when dwarves were able to perform magic. Sandal’s prophecy may be a reference to a time when the dwarves get their magic back. It even explains some of the unique creatures you run into during DA II, like the rock wraiths and/or profanes. Now, if that’s true, I think maybe there are still tribes of dwarves hidden away that are remnants of those dwarves, and Sandal is an exile from that tribe. He may have done something wrong, and that tribe of dwarves punished him by making him tranquil and abandoning him in the Deep Roads to his death. I mean, Sandal demonstrates some of the qualities of being tranquil. His proficiency with enchantments, his “savantness”, etc. Now, either the tranquil ritual affects dwarven mages differently, there was an accident involving the tranquil ritual that Sandal underwent that led to some of his peculiarities, or he was such a powerful mage that it wasn’t wholly effective. So in short, I think Sandal is a pseudo-tranquil mage who is also a lost descendent of the original inhabitants of the Primeval Thaig, who were dwarves who were able to use magic.


First of all. The “Maker” seriously. The Maker don’t exist. Nobody had head about him before Andreste and she only used him as an excuse to go warmongering. The Maker does not exist and we will never see him ingame as it will ruin the entire setting. The good, nay great thing about the Chantry is that it is a reallike religion unlike Dungeon and Dragons stupid “powerful being worship for power”.
We have the Chantry that a divine explanation to the meaning of life
We have the Qun that gives a materialistic explanation
And then we have all the atheist (and I include dwarfs in that category) that don’t really belive.
If the Maker were to show his face in game, we would have a “we are right and all of you is wrong”, and that would completely destroying immersion in the world for all time making dragon Age a JADDEMRPG (Just Another Dump Deus Ex Machina Role Playing Game)
With that behind us we must look carefully at Sandal and make sure that we do not make him into something that would destroy they integrity of the game (like including the maker as an actual character) and thereby making DA a JADDEMRPG.
I belive that Sandel is one of the most immediate and harmless characters that have been introduced. He is completely and utterly as he seems. He is I believe the only person in Dragon Age that would be completely immune to demon possession.
The reason for this is that he has no desires, no anger and cannot even comprehend the concept of pride. It would be impossible for any demon to posses him, as he has nothing they could twist.
So can’t we just make Sandel remain Sandel. A savant, and like all savants be exceptionally skilled in one particularly thing, without truly understanding what he does anyway.
Ps. If you are interested in the concept of savantness I suggest that you see the movie Rain Man
Pps. I added a poll to make it interesting.---rphb- (talk) 18:25, April 20, 2011 (UTC)

It might be possible for Sandal to be Flemmeths son, so far we have only heard of Flemmeth having daughters, maybe if she had a son she would discard him, thinking he is of no use to her. Maybe she isnt even aware of Sandal beeing alive if she abandoned him in the deep roads and the dreams of the scary old lady is just memories from his child hood. One thing that makes me think that Sandal is half human is that dwarves dosent dream, they sleep like the stone and have no conection to the fade. Since Sandal aparently had a nightmare about Flemmeth makes me think he's definetly part human.

I like the idea of Sandal being an Old God or some such, I think the writers could really do a lot with it. Regardless, I think that Sandal and Bodahn will play a big role in the DA series eventually. I doubt that Sandal would be shown to be evil, he's got too much of a fan base (don't you just want to give him a big hug???), but perhaps he's not good either - perhaps he's a being who transcends the morality of mortals, he could be an immortal with a unique view of the world. My idea is that perhaps he's a powerful being from the Fade that's been trapped inside a savant's body, or perhaps he's a powerful being that is merely putting on an act in order to observe the events in Thedas.

Think about it. He was closely tied to the Warden during the Fifth Blight. That ended and all of a sudden, he's tied closely with Hawke. I'm speculating that Sandal will be tied closely with the protagonist in DA3 too. Is it merely coincidence that Sandal is involved with people that influence Thedas so much? Or is he smarter than he appears, and somehow knows where and when to be? What would Sandal's reason be for being so close to so many influential figures? PERHAPS...perhaps, Sandal is the Maker, assessing the world of Thedas and determining their worth... Then again, perhaps Bodahn and Sandal merely serve to be reliable friends, vendors and comic relief. I look forward to see where Bioware takes this character. Fat Barry (talk) 02:08, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

I will agree with you on this much. He will be close to the PC of DA3 too. It is only logical that that DA3 takes place in Orlais we have heard too much about it, and there are too many things going on there for it not to be. I don't think Sandel is anything other then comic relief. he is the Forrest Gump of Dragon Age (except Forrest Gump was retarded and Sandel is a savant). Seriusly if he becomes anything else then a comic relief it would be a disappointment to some. But I will agree it dosn't really make sense why he would follow the PC so close to the final battle, so there might be something more.
But as I tolled you many times before, he is not the Maker, because the Maker does not exist.---rphb- (talk) 09:23, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

I think the Maker does exist, but I don't think he's what the hes he is. As for Sandal, I think they will take it somewhere, but I hope they plan it out well, because otherwise, it'd just be really chessy and dissapointing. I think somewhere along the line, Bodahn will be killed, which will change Sandal into something...more. King Cousland (talk) 17:56, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

I have given several good reasons for why the Maker does not exist, or at least why his existence will never be confirmed or made more plausible then the alternative, that he does not exist.

1) If the Maker exist, the Chantry might not be completly right, but the Qunari and the dwarves would be completely wrong.
2) Dragon Age is about belief and faith, tangible evidence destroys faith as it makes it unnecessary.
3) Dragon Age is Not, and I do not understand why I have to repeat this so many time, Dragon Age is not Dungeons and Dragons. It is a rational world, and it requires a rational explenation. Everything that have happened in Dragon Age have a rational explanation. Even the Magic is rational.

What you say about Sandels relation to Bodahn is of course correct, his death might be the only thing that can shake Sandel to a point where he might do "something", but I do not know what.---rphb- (talk) 19:36, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

I do agree that Dragon Age is NOT D&D, that it is more focused on belief and faith rather than Gods competing for power over mortals. However, the existence of spirits and demons shows that it is not exactly a "rational" world in our sense of the term. However, you do make a good point rphb, and it makes me think about my theories...

I do believe that there are gods/divine beings in Dragon Age, but not in the traditional D&D sense. For example, the Codex.... there are a remarkable amount of similarities between the Dalish mythology and the mythology surrounding the Maker. Both involve gods that are cut off from the realm of mortals in some way. There are similar ideologies and morality associated with each of these religions. Secondly, in DA2, there is a banter between Sebastian and Merril where they talk about their respective faiths, and comment on the similarities between them. Thirdly, you have the real world. All the real world religions on earth seem to share very similar basic concepts - love, loyalty, honesty, integrity, etc.

It seems sensible that Bioware would take influence from the world around them in creating a realistic-fantasy setting like Thedas. The conflict of different ideologies and religions is particularly prominent in our globalising age. Perhaps Bioware is taking it one step further in their mythology of Thedas... Perhaps the beliefs of the Dalish, the Qunari, the Chantry, the Chasind... maybe they all follow the same god/gods... but time and conflict has skewed their beliefs so that no one knows the actual truth? The Maker could simply be the Chantry's interpretation of the Dalish gods for example... Maybe Bioware is commenting on faith in general... there are so many religions in the world, but perhaps none of them are right... perhaps there is a grand truth behind it all that has simply been corrupted by time, culture and conflict.

Perhaps the gods referred to in Dragon Age are actually the Reapers from Mass Effect and the two universes are tied together in some way. JUST JOKING!!! That would be utterly insane if Bioware tried that :) Fat Barry (talk) 10:30, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

The religions of Dragon Age are of course inspired by real world religions, and how they might have alternatively been. If Muhammed had been a women that lived in Europe he would have been Andreste, if Siddhartha Gautama had been born the son of a Muslim (or preemuslim) sultan he would have been Ashkaari Koslun and so on.
But there really aren't that many religions in the world when you think about it.
1) We have Christendom which since Martin Luther have been fragmented into many national churches and private denominations.
2) We have Islam which its two main directions.
3) We have Judaism which is more or less still whole.
4) We have Buddhism
4 we have four religions in the world
There are also some traditional folkreligions like Hinduism or Shintoism, where the religion is more a part of the culture then anything else (you can't be a Hindu without being an Indian, and you can't be an Indian without being a Hindu)
And then we have newage religious cults like Mormonism, Jehovahs Witnesses, the Moon movement, and Scientology, that are more about fooling idiots into giving them their hard earned money, then anything else.
You might consider radical political ideologies like fascism, capitalism or communism as religions too, in fact they have more of a right to be called a religion then the above mentioned cults but if we are going to be fair, only the first four I mentioned can be considered an actual religion.---rphb- (talk) 15:28, April 25, 2011 (UTC)
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