Forums: Index > Game Discussion > Recruit Loghain, Lose Alistair?
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I just read the article about loghain, and found this line: "Recruiting Loghain causes Alistair to leave the party, without exception." Is it 100% sure? Even a romanced, hardened, and chosen-to-be-king Alistair will do that? After i read the books i really want to have mercy on Loghain... But Losing alistair is not an option to me. (talk) 10:32, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, you're forced to choose Loghain or Alistair. I executed Loghain, understanding doesn't mean forgiving, my Coulsand and every elf warden couldn't forgive him personal grudges. (talk) 10:39, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

It's worth it for three reasons. One; to get the recruiter achievement requires his recruitment. Two; letting him sacrifice himself is a requirement of the Perfectionist achievement. Three; letting him survive means he gets to go to Orlais for a while on "official Warden business". Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 10:45, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

Bear in mind though that you can save before going to the Landsmeet, recruit Loghain, get the achievement and then reload, going through the process again and keep Alistair, instead of Loghain. --Madasamadthing (talk) 23:52, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
That's great if all you want is the Recruiter trophy, but if you want the Redeemer ad therefore the Perfectionist, trophies, you need to finish the game with him, and that means hours of play with a less than satisfactory tank. Besides, Alistair isn't guaranteed to remain king, if you recruit Loghain; this choice can have detrimental effects on Alistair in DA2. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 02:08, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
Alistair is guaranteed to remain King if you make him King. If anything it is Loghain's fate that is less than guaranteed. If you make Alistair King and marry him to Anora, then it is possible to keep Loghain. If you make Alistair King but don't marry him to Anora then Alistair will kill Loghain anyway. I got this situation in my third play through. He declared himself King, I was very proud lol. It is only if you don't make him King that he will end up drunk or dead. But to say Alistair isn't guaranteed to remain king if Loghain is recruited is inncorrect if you have made him King. --MichelleAnn85 (talk) 13:53, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
Well, if you're gonna split hairs over this, then yes. Alistair is guaranteed to become king, after you've decided Loghain's fate, and listened to Alistair throw a hissy fit over it, you can decide to still make him king. Though I'm less sure about this holding true in the case of a not-hardened Alistair. Still, I question the motives of making him king after that display of "he stole my special toy." Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 20:09, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
I would hardly call the betrayal and murder of his mentor, friends, and brother as "stealing his special toy". If that's not grounds for righteous vengeance, I'm not sure what is. Throughout the narrative of the game, the theme of Alistair growing in self-belief and standing up for himself is a prominent one in the player's interactions with him. Why is it then surprising that when push comes to shove, he finally does exactly that? In the end, he's not drastically different to any of the other companions - they all have a line that they will not tolerate you crossing, and if you do, they will walk away or try to kill you themselves. Alistair's line in the sand just happens to be Loghain.--Darkly Tranquil (talk) 14:09, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
"My special toy" refers to a 5yo's hissy fit over a toy in someone else' hand. Ignoring Duncan's own entry into the Warden ranks, Alistair makes the Wardens some grand honor, when they are historically traitors to Fereldan; so not accepting Loghain is so much hand waving. I can accept his adamant refusal however, had it not been for the sudden turn around, "I'll be king, to make sure he dies!!!" Really Alistair... Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 16:39, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
A 'historic trator' to Ferelden would seem to me to be a group that had a history of tratorious activites (hense the term) as opposed to one incident. Not sure who you've been talking to but most everyone you talk to in game holds the wardens in very high regard. "Highest service one can render" is a phrase that comes to mind. Even despite Loghain's accusations. So you're criticising him for going to great lengths to make sure the murderer of his friends is punished, really? Okay. And 'hissy fit' seriously? That's not worth commenting on. And you might want to differenciate between a hardened who wants to be king and takes the throne on own as opposed to a non-hardened Alistair who doesn't want to be king but will to save Ferelden. --Lady Kathlyn (talk) 21:48, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, indeed, highest calling; that's why their ranks are filled with the dregs of society, cast-offs, and criminals. Let's face the facts, anyone with a tangible future wouldn't willingly join without sufficient cause not to. What sane lordling would choose to spend his life chasing darkspawn all over maker's green acre, when he's got a seat in the house of power. Hell, a commoner would prefer a life as a soldier, over the Wardens, due in large part to the higher likelihood safety. When looked at through non-gamer eyes, the Wardens offer little more than a respected livelihood and personal redemption for it's members; kind of like the French Army, you don't join it for the uniform and croissants, you join it because you have little left to lose. Back to the lords, the only sane lordling to willingly join, would be one with a few or several older siblings which would negate your chance at a position of power, and you're not willing to commit fratricide to get it. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 01:42, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it is 100% guaranteed. He quits the Wardens no matter what you do when you agree to recruit Loghain. The only way to recruit Loghain and stop Alistair leaving completely is to marry him to Anora, but even if you do that, he becomes unavailable to use for the rest of the game - he sits it out, sulking (justifiably, IMO). Personally, I kill Loghain every chance I get; of the 12 times I finished the game, I recruited him once for the achievement and then fed him to archdaemon, and killed him the other 11 times. Loghain can GDAIF. Apart from anything else, his talents are poorly arranged and his gear is terrible - he's a much worse tank than Alistair from a purely gameplay perspective. --Darkly Tranquil (talk) 11:26, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

When Alistair meets his former comrade in arms in Vigil's Keep in DAA, does he react differently after transefering saved file with him and Anora married and Loghain surviving the Blight? I only know Loghain will come to Vigil's keep only to say he's going to Orlesian Wardens. (talk) 11:58, March 10, 2013 (UTC)
IIRC, if Alistair is married to Anora and Loghain is alive, its Anora who comes to Vigil's Keep, not Alistair. He only shows up if he is King by himself, otherwise its Anora. --Darkly Tranquil (talk) 12:04, March 10, 2013 (UTC)
Are you sure? I think I rememeber seeing both Alistair and Loghain on my playthrough when they both lived. Henio0 (talk) 12:09, March 10, 2013 (UTC)
No, not 100%; just my sketchy recollection. I haven't actually played for 18 months. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong. --Darkly Tranquil (talk) 12:15, March 10, 2013 (UTC)
Here to be correct! No there is no difference in the animation. BUT, considering a character's personal playthrough, if you parted on Good terms, it's just a cameo of Alistair saying "I wish I wasn't King, I have all the responsibilities and I want to kill darkspawn with you again." But if you parted on bad terms, hearing Alistair say that he wishes he could help you out mollifies the feelings of resentment the Warden might feel after he quits your party.Konous (talk) 15:30, March 10, 2013 (UTC)
I imported the throwaway save I used for the Redeemer ending (Loghain dies against the Archdemon) and while Alistair was still mad he got a grand funeral, he was still friendly when he came to visit Vigil's Keep. So as long as he's king, he'll show up, but if Anora rules alone, she'll visit. I think that's how it works. RShepard227 (talk) 20:41, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
She'll also visit if she rules jointly with a Cousland King. But basically, a King Alistair trumps a Queen Anora. Believe it! (talk) 05:32, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
She doesn't have much choice; you can't very well visit yourself. It's been a while since I made an Orlesian Warden, so I don't recall a history import option. ARGH!!!! now that's gonna bug me...
- saves current game and plugs in DAA... - Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 20:20, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
No, no history import, not even the generic one's found in DA2. I'm gonna asume Alistair greets you; I'll confirm that shortly. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 20:58, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
Yup, Alistair is the default royal visitor. To conclude; the Orlesian Warden is flying blind, Origins wise. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 21:53, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

If your choosing between the two, couple ways of looking at it. Gameplaywise, Loghain comes in at about the same level you are, so that's a wash. Personally rather have a Templar than a Champion. Storywise, putting aside personal feelings (who like or motives for revenge) I don't trust Loghain. He killed the son of his best friend because he wouldn't do what he wanted. I figured the first time the warden does something he doesn't like he'll stab him in the back. Only reason he doesn't to me is that the game ends too soon. Realistically, the choice is between a 20somthing man, who been trained since young as warrior and been fighting darkspawn for last year plus and a 60ish man, raised a farmer who main occupation is a general and probably hasn't fought in a battle in 30 years. He might be a great general but you don't need one to fight darkspawn, it's not like you have to out think them. So I know who I'm picking. --Lady Kathlyn (talk) 22:09, March 14, 2013 (UTC)