Hello, I know this pointless and stupid and whatever else...but I don't really care...who do you all prefer dark haired temptress Morrigan or Leliana...
That's a tough call but I'd have to go with Morrigan. I like the both of them, but were they real I think Leliana's personality would grate on me sometimes. Some people would probably say the same thing about Morrigan, but personally I think I'm more suited to dealing with Morrigan's personality than Leliana's. Leliana also seems a bit high-maintenance and while Morrigan likes jewelry she seemed to appreciate the simple things more. I'm also a fan of the tragic romance, but with Witch Hunt that might not be the case with Morrigan anymore. We'll just have to wait and see, not that it would change my choice.
Just in terms of appearances: in DA:O proper and the concept art I prefer Morrigan, though Leliana wins out in the Sacred Ashes trailer. I like Morrigan's appearance in the concept art best though and I use a morph to make her look more like it in game.22:58, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with everything you said there, Aedan. I'm a girl, and even I think the Sacred Ashes Leliana is smoking hot! But when it comes to gameplay, I find Morrigan's attitude much more akin to my own and Leliana is just kind of annoying. I did see a Leliana romance through to the end once, and I can't tell you how many times I wanted to smack her. :P -- 16:08, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Definitely Morrigan overall. In general, I think Leliana is more of a wilting flower stereotype - the cutesy accent, the easily flustered demeanor, the coyness, the love of shoes and crap. I like the fact that Morrigan is hard-nosed and opinionated and sometimes difficult to agree with. And I think she has more depth to her. There is the surface Morrigan, who's mouthy and sarcastic and a bit cruel, but I think there's an interesting element to her when you consider the kind of abusive relationship she's had with her "mother."
There are different parts of their personalities that I like such as Leliana's kindness and how sweet she is but the whole thing about being so optimistic would grate on me. I would like Morrigan because of her cynicism and rationale but her coldness would grate on me sometimes she seems like there wouldn't be anything personal. A hardened Leliana would be the best but otherwise it would be Morrigan. King of the Dusters (talk) 23:55, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
Well, I like both of them for their differences, especially their relationship with one another; Leliana provides a good, feminine counter to Morrigan's pessimism. However, I find myself pulling for Morrigan more as I agree with her views of the world and, while I thought her final decision to either have my child or leave kinda made me mad(as I played a female Warden with a (potentially) romantic relationship with Alistair), I loved her dry wit and, frankly, she was more useful in my party(I also played a rogue, therefore with no need for Leliana's rogue-ness. XD). As others have said, I like certain things about both of them; Leliana's happy outlook on life makes me feel better, but Morrigan's somewhat sadistic, darker personality makes me laugh a lot more often. So, in the long run, I like Morrigan more overall. --TwilitWolfAmaterasu (talk) 03:37, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
I don't see what the appeal is with Morrigan. I appreciate the character. She's funny and some of her traits are likeable because she is so cut and dry. However, she is a little too mean for me. I have never romanced her but just her dialogue in some situation are obnoxious. "You should not help anyone and any opportunity for power is alright as long as it is to your benefit not matter the cost", is not realy my thing. IMO I do feel that with power comes responsiblilty. I like the side missions that involve helpin some poor soul in need. It was always a thorn in my bum when I would lose approval points with Morrigan because I helped someone. I also thought it was a little hypocritical that she would beg for my help in relieveing her of Flemeth when she was so dead set on not helping people especially if their problems were not in anyway my problem. Plus she's only around as long as she is getting something out of the deal. Just for kicks I denied her the DR and she left on the eve of the battle. Even after I killed Flemeth for her. Leliana seems more loyal. She seems to care about the PC as well as the other companions. I was two timing her and Alistair (I've got my nerve)and I found her sugary sweet demeanor delightful. If I create another PC Leliana is definitely my choice for a female lover. Morrigan is a little to overrated in my book.RhiannonCousland (talk) 04:16, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
- To me Morrigan's internal conflict is part of her appeal. She tries to live by the lessons that Flemeth taught her but she struggles with her heart. She has the two different forces tearing at her; what she was raised to believe was right, and what she feels is right in her heart. It's a complicated thing to be sure, and admittedly I've had a similar struggle (probably a large part of why I prefer her). In the romance with her she ends up loving the Warden even though Flemeth taught her that love is bad and to her it's quite the foreign and scary thing. You can really see the internal conflict, the struggle to find her own place and her own values (as opposed to those of others).
- I also think that with power comes responsibility, but the nature of that responsibility isn't always clear. I think the main disagreement I'd have with Morrigan is over doing nice things for people. Overall I'm a pretty nice person, but I'll admit that it's not always because I like being a nice person. If doing nice things isn't too much trouble (which it rarely is, though for the most part I like being nice) I'll just go ahead and do it (even if I don't like what I'll have to do), just because it's nice and good for people's overall opinion. I don't believe in true charity because you always get something out of it (whether it's people saying you're a good person or simply feeling good about doing it) but helping others is always important. I like helping other people, I'll suffer through things just to see the smiles on their faces, but I'll also help people I don't like (or even hate) just because I know people's opinion is important (people say it isn't but it really is).
- During Origins Morrigan is struggling with the lessons Flemeth taught her but I think she's starting to get past them a bit when (and if) she takes the Warden with her during Witch Hunt. I think she's a rather sympathetic character to a lot of people. She dislikes most people around her but in the Warden she can see good, someone to love and to give her some semblance of hope. Morrigan is trying to find herself, her place in the world, and to understand the world that she's in. She doesn't hold those cheery illusions (that it could be said Leliana and many real people do). Morrigan sees the world as it is; a dark and conflicted place where the answers are neither easy, nor clear.
- Morrigan clearly doesn't mind helping people when it's advantageous or if she simply likes them, but when there's no immediate pay off she doesn't seem to see the need. Personally I'd just chalk that up to her being raised by Flemeth and not knowing how to live among other people. Another thing to note is that in many ways she needs the Warden and everyone likes to feel needed. While she can be rather hateful and mean, so can most people (and so can I if the mood strikes me). She just doesn't have very good social skills, insulting Alistair (among others) even though they have to work together.
- I might be projecting my personal views on to her a bit (or more), but that's how I see her character. At the very least I can say she's a relate-able character for me. I think if you can understand that kind of internal conflict and understand why she's so defensive (or sensitive as it may b), then she becomes a more likable character. Does anyone else here see what I'm seeing in her? Hmmm... I feel like I might have said more about myself in this post than I'd like but I'm going to hit save anyway. 05:41, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
I have to agree with Rhiannon Cousland. I actually just finished a male Warden character and I had romanced Leliana. I mean, I admire Morrigan's bad girlness but I always feel like I'm walking on eggshells with her. She seems to be all talk and if you insult her, she gets angry over the dumbest things. She can't handle somethings being said to her and it pisses her off. However, if she insults you, she expects you to handle it. Although Leliana's constant preaching of the Maker drives me a little crazy, she is more flexible and I like that about her.--Fantasyeve87 04:47, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Morrigan has surprisingly different attitude when she romances the Warden compared to when they're just companions. She's sort of... nicer, kinder. Or maybe it jsut has something to do with her trying to be seductive and flirt more. I don't really know.
Anyway, I'll have to pick Morrigan. I agree with the previous note how she seems a character with a bit more depth and internal conflict - apparently, when she puts the way she was raised against her own observations, things often start to get hard for her, especially when it comes to "love". Morrigan wants to keep her feet on the ground and not show her softer (and in her mind, weaker) side and she is wise to do so, especially in a world like Thedas, but she isn't all spikes and edges pointed at everyone, too. You may also see a bit of sentimentality and even child-like innocence when you present her with the golden mirror, or when she asks whether you think the two of you are friends.
Overall, however, the comparison is clear. Morrigan is the more rational, cold-hearted, and tough of the two, being a lot harder to befriend and a lot more fickle. Leliana's the easier type of woman to cope with, but thank you, I like the Witch of the Wilds just fine. My characters are rarely the knight in shining armor archetype, either, so I'd say they fit well with Morrigan. Leliana's just a bit too sweet, optimistic, and in a way fanatical for my tastes - that said, she becomes more "grey" and "human-like" after being hardened.
Also, Morrigan contradicts herself, more like an actual, real woman. When you first share the bed (tent?) together she claims to have "no designs on your independence", but try to remind her of that when she acts the "possesive wife" once you play around with Leliana or Zevran a bit too much! Also, unlike Alistair, who contrary to what some may think actually seems to hate her (he wants Flemeth to live so she can possess her, for F*s sake!), Morrigan, while clearly disliking the templar, at least on some level cares for him as a companion - after all, she does take the time to ask about his sister and such.
Last but not least, and this makes my above statements somewhat not objective, let's face it, I'm a sucker for yellow/golden/amber/honey/whatever-you-call-it-eyes. It's almost a fetish. Not to mention Morrigan looks just fantastic when she makes a sad face.
So, all in all - Morrigan > Leliana.
Morrigan. I don't agree with most of her views, but as Aedan put better than I can, she is so conflicted and so complicated, and that gives her more appeal than Leliana. And those golden eyes with black hair do help.Croc484 (talk) 13:00, January 2, 2011 (UTC)Croc484
Well, I didn't mean to make it seem as though Morrigan is all bad if that is how I came off, guys. She is very interesting. Even just being really good friends with her in my playthrough, I still liked her story. I just see her better as a a buddy than a romantic interest. When I played WH, she seemed serious about offering the ritual so that I could live and seemed eager to see me (in her own way of course). Almost like she missed me. That was nice. However, when I see that it was mostly to her benefit and that she had to sleep with the Warden's significant other to do it, it just makes me realize how selfish she can be. She also says that it is something she does not regret. Like geez, you can't be even a smidgin sorry that you had to sleep with my husband to get your Old God. While it did save my life maybe I just felt that she could have shown a little remorse. Friends are supposed to do that. It's probably just me and Like Aedan, I am revealing too much about myself on this thread. I am completely conflicted with Morrigan but there are some things that I like about her. However, I could never see myself with a man like that, so as a romance character, Morrigan just doesn't cut it for me. I happen to think her clear cut way of seeing the world is something that super nice people (like myself)need to adapt. And while I think that Morrigan can be mean, it is rather stupid to go through the world with rose colored glasses. I think I just ended up bashin her again.RhiannonCousland (talk) 15:50, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Morrigan is a little prettier. The eyes and long, dark hair, and outfit secure that. Leliana is in no way a slouch though, and in the trailer is much prettier actually (Leliana in LS is better than in DA:O, longer red hair=major plus). Attitudes are a toss up. Morrigan is harsh, pragmatic and manipulative by nature. You will know where you stand with her, or not. She'd drive you nuts most likely. Leliana is, at first, a bit broken IMO. Once hardened, a must, she becomes different, but you almost have to read between the lines to see it as it was not really explored as well as it could have been. I think after that, in reality, Leliana would be more fun. The fact that she went into a threesome/foursome willingly actually says a whole lot about her and her past, plus what she may be in to. That said, both are possessive. Morrigan more so actually. Leliana should not be I would think, again given her past. So a possessive, incredibly sexy witch who would probably destroy you in fantastic ways? Or a reformed bad girl bard who would probably shock you to death with how she really is?
I love having Morrigan finding herself helplessly in love with me, even though it's against everything Flemeth taught her to be. I know it's off topic, but what did the Epilouge mean be Leiliana finding a way to see her love again after I died? She isn't going to kill herself is she? TheGreyestWarden (talk) 19:12, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
- The implication is that she dies, I doubt she kills herself. Rather, she knows she is going to die and meets with happiness because she will be reunited with the Warden in the presence of the Maker. (Think: Heaven). Valadeus (talk) 14:04, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
I was a little puzzled at that to TheGreyestWarden but I assumed that she had a vision with the warden and joined him (or her). Thats why she vanished. Its either that or she got high and fell into a river having hallucinations about the warden and her.
Back to the topic. Personally I would prefer Morrigan if she weren't so mean to Alistair who I think would be one of those loyal best friends. I agree with whoever said about Morrigan's view on the world with Flemeth's teachings and her heart being confused. I also agree with the person who said that Morrigan has a real view on the world. I think im just conflicted with my view on her. On the other hand I actually like Leliana's optimistic view, admittedly the Maker thing does tend to get annoying sometimes. I also the bad bard gone good thing. On the looks though Morrigan wins by a mile though. Daggers End (talk) 22:07, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
- I'll chime in here. In my first play through, I romanced Leliana because she was easier for me to connect with. She's definitely used to finery and as you play through the game you begin to see her need for her viewpoint of the Maker. She believes in a forgiving, loving Maker because that's what she needs and despite all opposition, she will cling to that. This belief drives her to always believe in an "everybody wins" scenario to every situation and she has trouble accepting any decision that doesn't seem best for everyone involved. (Reference her refusal to kill Connor even though doing so would save more lives than letting him live (before she knew you could save him by fighting the demon in the Fade), also reference her argument against killing the blood mage in the Tower and her argument to release Jowan and Sten regardless of their crimes.)
- Morrigan on the other hand has grown on me. Her viewpoints clearly stem from her childhood. Flemeth has raised her to believe in power and to strut no one but herself, least of all men. From talking with her, you realize that she's been raised to believe in survival of the fittest, that nothing in life is worth clinging to because it is fleeting, that happiness is nothing more than a state of mind and that love is an attachment that blinds reason. As you progress through the story and talk with her, you will notice subtle changes in her as he challenges her own internal beliefs. Yes, she opposes random acts of kindness because she believes nobody benefits from a hand out (what doesn't kill you makes you stronger). But as your approval with her goes up, you begin to see her personality shift from blatant disregard for anyone to uncertainty to the eventual daring to go against everything she's been raised to believe in when she falls in love with the Warden.
- You won't notice this change so readily in the game because her disapproval for kindness is coded in to every situation because the game doesn't dictate what order you do it in and BioWare didn't code in a "softened" status for her like they coded in "hardened" for Leliana and Alistair.
- As a side thought, have any of you entirely avoided romances with either Leliana, Morrigan or Zevran (as a male) and gotten Morrigan up to 90+ approval? She actually pulls you to the side, discusses that she's never had a friend, never believed she needed one and has never loved anyone but the Warden has caused that all to change. She then asks if you have ever considered being more than a friend with her. If you say yes, you will bypass nearly all of the angsty "I hate being in love" part of her romance and instead see a very innocent, heartfelt relationship with her. (You still get the ring as well). Valadeus (talk) 13:54, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
PHysically? Don't make me choose. I'll take both. Personality wise, I like both, but I think the relationship with Morrigan is a bit more natural, from my own experience. It starts from a point of mutual attraction as something physical, and leads somewhere deeper but with intamacy issues that can be overcome. Leliana, you get some flirting, some more flirting, you help her put her issues with her ex to bed, and she tells you she loves you. Granted there's apparently some off screen stuff we aren't seeing(late nights standing watch around camp), but because we don't see it, it doens't have the same affect.ChosenOfAsmodeus (talk) 15:14, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
Morrigan will be my pick when I finally get around to playing all the way through with a male character. All of my female characters have found reasons to keep her around and actually become close friends with her. The way her voice catches when she thanks you for the golden mirror made me tilt my head and go awww, equally as cute as some of Alistair's cutest moments. I know most of the people who like Alistair tend to hate on Morrigan, but not me. I think she is a more interesting character than Leliana. Leliana is sweet and not nearly as irritating as some people make her out to be. Surprisingly, the religious clap-trap didn't bother me as much as I thought it would. I have romanced Leliana as a female character (even had a glitch occur that allowed simultaneous romance with Zevran to reach max approval with no dialog bugs), but if she flirts with you and you tell her you aren't interested, you lose nearly all dialog options with her, even after doing her personal quest, with maxed approval. You can't ask her if she's feeling better about what happened with Marjolaine unless you are in a romance. There is only the dialog to harden her or not, then one more option about bards, I think. This sort of kills it for me, since if you don't romance Leliana, you can't really become good friends with her either.
Morrigan becoming friends with my female character was just so damned cute that I can't imagine romancing Leliana over her. And as for Morrigan not regretting conceiving a child with Alistair to save my Warden's life, I'm glad she doesn't. My female Wardens, who have either married Alistair or become his mistress, see it this way: if romancing Alistair, he's the one Morrigan actually saved. Not just because I, as the player, know that, but also because it is in Alistair's nature to sacrifice himself to save the woman he loves. If my Warden left him at the gate and sacrificed herself, well, that would just be cruel, wouldn't it? Especially since my Warden knew a way that they could both survive, and end the Blight. In a way, my Wardens owe Morrigan two lives, not just one, so the idea of getting revenge on her in Witch Hunt was so off-base. Really, what would my Warden want to get revenge for? And Morrigan did apologize for not being truthful with my Warden, but maybe you only get to hear this dialog if you were at friendly approval with Morrigan at the end of Origins and weren't hostile when meeting her in the Dragonbone Wastes. I've only played Witch Hunt once so far, and don't know all available options yet. My Warden let her go into the Eluvian, and might have gone with her, but she'd have to leave Alistair behind, and that was so not happening. ---Niquorebel Cousland (talk) 01:40, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
I thought it would have been appropriate to at least say tht "hey, it's not something I wanna do but it for the greater good". I just think that it's a little awkward to call someone your sister and then sleeps with her guy. I see your point though; had it not been for the Ritual, Alistair and the Warden's happy ending would not have been possible. As much as I disagree with a lot of things that she says or feels, I still like her I just don't think I'd pick her over Leliana for a romance partner. Just like I really like Loghain's character (epsecailly since reading the books) yet he has never been spared in my playthrough. As for killing Morrigan in Witch Hunt, that a little strange. you are in fact still alive because of her.RhiannonCousland (talk) 03:48, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
The decision to kill Morrigan seemed to stem directly from roleplaying. How dare she sleep with the Man I love. How dare she take my child away from me. How dare she desert me right before the final battle. It's only when you incorporate these motives into your character that you would find any reason to kill her. I, however did it for the only reason I could think would make a difference. I aimed to kill the OGB, so I shanked his caregiver. TheGreyestWarden (talk) 04:48, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
Geez Louise. I was annoyed that she left on the eve of the battle when she realized I wouldn't go through with the DR. But I'm not sure how any of things are reason enough to kill her. She has to die because she wouldn't help you fight? She has to die since she slept with your man and saved you and him from dying? Granted, you did kill a powerful abomination at her request so it would be nice if she did help you kill the flippin AD. Of course it is just a matter of opinion and I know you simply gave reasons why people might wanna shank her. I also think that it's a terrible idea to stab her anyway since by the end of my game, she was incredibly powerful. And to top it off she had both of the grimiores. I wouldn't want her on my ass.RhiannonCousland (talk) 04:23, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
- With all the respect in the world, I'm pretty sure we've all killed for less in DA:O TheGreyestWarden (talk) 04:48, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
- On the "killing her because she slept with your man" part, she DID get your permission first. So what you're actually doing is killing her because she had the decency to ask for your permission to sleep with your man (whom she hates) to save your life and his life for your sake and then AFTER giving her permission, you feel justified for killing her? I could see wanting to kill her if she seduced Alistair (magically, of course, since he'd never be seduced by her if he were in control of his senses) and slept with him without your consent (or his in this case). No matter her intentions there, that's a betrayal. But getting your permission first? Hardly justifiable. Valadeus (talk) 13:06, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
- It's very easy to hate someone for giving you such a choice in a dark situation. Not to mention, that this dark magic is against what Alistair truly believes in, Grey Warden's must do what is right and not seek an easy way out. The only reason he seemed to do it was for his trust and/or love for you, and if you are into the whole roleplay aspect of it, then the OGB decision may even tear you two apart one day. TheGreyestWarden (talk) 04:48, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
My view of Morrigan basically corresponds with what Aedan Cousland and Valadeus have said: romancing her reveals depths and traits that are certainly worth it. The relationship is bittersweet, yes, and demanding on the male Warden’s part, and also challenging. Leliana, IMHO, is easy, like shallow water. With Morrigan, you’re above depths which could drown you both. – Such romantic, I know :-) Anyway, when I found out that by picking a male character I missed one wonderful Alistair to romance, I started a crash on Morrigan as a substitute, just to have some fun… and my Warden totally fell for her. It’s definitely a pity there were not more dialogue options to pursue the development of the relationship. – Needless to say, in the end they kissed and went through the mirror :-) Ygrain (talk) 14:56, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
Well, the question is who seduces whom :-) And it's also quite fun - a textbook example of a woman saying no while she means yes :-)) Love with Morrigan reminds me of this poem (the translation is mine, made on the spot, that's why it's so awkward - I hope you get the meaning):
Love? What of it would you hear, my lord,
when the heart knows not the word?
Love is a path amongst the thorns
ending in silent tombs...
Love is an ever-constant sigh
for dew lost and denied...
Love is a footprint in the snow
lost under chilly shroud...
Love is a kiss of lethal heat
which leaves you withering.
Love, oh my lord, is everything
that you can never have from me...
After reading this, I doubt I have anything new to add in regards to Morrigan or Leliana. I've probably romanced Morrigan in more playthrus than I have Leliana (especially since Witch Hunt came out), though I probably prefer romancing Leliana. I generally play a good character, and Morrigan disapproving of just about everything I do makes it hard to romance her. If I keep Morrigan at camp, it's easier to both keep her approval up and romance her as she isn't constantly disagreeing with me. Gruedragon (talk) 20:10, January 5, 2011 (UTC)
I'm not particularly interested in romance in the game. But as a party member I find Morrigan more useful although her character is crabby, selfish, mean and generally annoying. I like to play good characters that do good things and I enjoy making her disapprove of everything I do because she is so annoying. Also, with everyone else dressed in warm clothing she seems very oddly dressed so I go out of the way to find her something warm to wear. Having her walking around in a string bikini top seems a little too Hollywood for my likes.Cariban (talk) 18:19, January 11, 2011 (UTC)
be nice to morrigan and she will be disconcerted, she clearly never had a kind word given to her so her bitchiness is very understandable
Blech, Leliana in my opinion. I do understand that Morrigan has a reason for her annoyingness, but that doesn't change my opinion one bit. She irritates me to no end and plus, I always play as a good character so yeah. And either way I find Leliana infinitely more attractive both in the Sacred Ashes trailer and in-game. And plus, then we have the fact that while Morrigan is near to being evil as such, Leliana is a better person than a dozen of a dozen girls I know in real life. Perfection. Leliana, without much a contest.
They're both pretty sexy. But Leliana is a bit more experienced sexually. So yeah Leliana, plus Morrigans attitude is such a turn off sometimes.