Forum:Morrigan's child?

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Ok forgive me here because I am literally completely new to Wiki and have only been playing Dragon Age since sometime in December of 2015. I played them out of order because initially I was using them to get over the ending of a different game. SOO I started in Dragon Age 2 and kinda... had the game eat me... anywho. I then started DAI and got pretty confused realizing characters had been in the former games. I was one quest away from completing the game (I romanced Solas... and Cullen) and I ruined the end ON ACCIDENT searching for an answer to if Solas stays with the inquisitor... oh what a mistake. I got on Dragon Age Keep and realized I wanted to play through the first game (for some answers and to play my own lore because I had been playing the Bioware cannon versions of all the games [aka Alistair king, female elf warden dead, morrigan no baby, hawke male mage, supported mage rebellion ect.])

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS (some of the many) I HAVE RIGHT NOW.

What does Morrigan want with a baby? And how does this child effect Mythal/Flemmeth? And somehow in this process; how does this baby effect our little dread wolf? (Damn it Solas...) AND WHY IN THE BIOWARE CANNON VERSION IS THERE NO BABY IF THE BABY IS SUCH A BIG DEAL? Now I have ALOT of theories on the lyrium, titans, Arlathan (The elven city for reminder), The Black city, the Fade, ect. And I may TOTALLY be over thinking this baby thing, but if anyone has any insight of any level of confusing, please MAKE THIS MAKE SOME SENSE.

Luthien Lavellan (talk) 12:32, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

I'm assuming you're ok with a bit of spoilers. It's never entirely clear what Morrigan wants with the old god baby (generally referred to as the OGB- at least before he got a name), aside from something vague about him having a destiny and Morrigan's philosophy that old things should be preserved. And of course, to save the warden, but that was probably just a bonus.

Kieran (OGB) doesn't exist in Bioware canon because his conception is optional, and generally the Bioware canon weeds out any characters that may or may not appear or are able to die in the games so that new players don't get bogged down with too many cameos that won't matter or make that much sense to them.

Also, Kieran will exist not only in world states where the Warden (or Alistair or Loghain) participates in Morrigan's ritual, but also any where the Warden romanced Morrigan (though he won't have the old God soul in that instance). Old God infused Kieran actually meets Flemeth in a pretty interesting scene once you finish the Arbor Wilds in Inquisition- but it's still not entirely clear what exactly she needed him for.

I doubt Kieran himself will have much to do with Solas, as a character who won't exist in many world states it will be tough to have him play an important part in the games (unless they go the Here Lies the Abyss warden route and replace him with another character in those world states). I do think Morrigan is being set up to be a counter to Solas though, so Kieran could end up being there too. --Liam Sionnach (talk) 13:49, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

Ok that does make sense. But noting your comment about Morrigan being set up as a counter for Solas? That is implying Solas is going to most likely be the next (semi?) Antagonist? Or so we can safely guess. And that is saying that Morrigan (Who by all intents and purposes) has lied to us since game one is to help us eliminate (or hopefully save/stop if not help him achieve his goal through other means) Solas.

Luthien Lavellan (talk) 14:10, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

Why not just play through Origins and find out for yourself? It's a goddam' masterpiece. As for Morrigan's motivation, I doubt she ever stated her true intentions. In Origins she claims she wants to be free of Flemeth when she realises that Flemeth wanted to steal her body to prolong her own life. The significance of the baby ritual is not known yet, but what is known is that it backfires on Morrigan as Flemeth takes Kieran's powers anyway. The Old God Baby is not "a big deal" yet, but it was the biggest choice of Origins, because it determined whether the Warden (your character) lives or dies, so they had to give it meaning in future installments, otherwise the choice would be pointless, as many of the Dragon Age choices are. But my personal opinion is that going ahead with the dark ritual and creating Kieran is evil and in the end will kick the Warden in the arse. henioo ^{(da talk page)} 16:21, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

I am playing through the first game if that wasn't clear. I know what having the child does then. I was asking intention if that was also not clear. I was also asking of the effects of his birth later on. I also get it's a big choice in origins as I have almost completed the game. And I'm not so sure claiming much of anything in the Dragon Age series as 'Evil' entirely works. The more I play the more I'm thinking 99.9% of this stuff is shades of grey. Nothing in Dragon Age is simple, nothing is truly as black and white as it seems. Especially not an old god baby...

Luthien Lavellan (talk) 16:48, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

No one but BioWare will be able to tell you the future for Kieran. As for the evilness, I'd be quite disappointed if going through with the dark ritual didn't have major side effects. The Warden acted selfish by trying to save his/her life this way and thus repercussions should be bad. And if you say there are no evil choices in Dragon Age, you must've not been paying attention. See Murder knife for examples. ;) henioo ^{(da talk page)} 17:05, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

Morrigan wanted to have Kieran in order to obtain Urthemiel's soul, which she wanted because she had been raised to believe that persevering the old ways is important. Given that it was Flemythal who raised her, I think that we can safely say that is ultimately her who wanted Urthemiel's soul for something specific, and she simply manipulated Morrigan into getting it for her. Shortly after she takes Urthemiel's soul from Kieran, Flemeth dies when Solas absorbs Mythal, so presumably he now has Urthemiel's soul (in the worldstates where the OGB existed). His plans for it are probably the same as Flemythal's, since the two appear to have been working together.

Solas flips out once he learns about the wardens' plan to kill the Old Gods. I think there's more to it than that he believes doing so would be dangerous. My guess is that Solas and Mythal need an Old God soul for some specific action related to their plan to tear down the veil. Without Urthemiel's soul, Solas may need to get either Razikale's or Lusacan's instead. Since they're entombed below the deep roads and surrounded by darkspawn, that would be nearly impossible, even for him. Which could ultimately mean that Solas succeeds in tearing down the veil if he has Urthemiel's soul, but he fails if he doesn't.

But that's just a theory - for now all we know is that Solas has Urthemiel's soul (if it exists) and that he plans to use it somehow. Silver Warden (talk) 18:17, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

Dow we actually "know" that Solas has Urthemiel's soul? She sent something through the eluvian before he got there after all. I'm also not convinced that Solas and Flemeth were working together- possibly not specifically against each other, but I think Mythal had her own goals.--Liam Sionnach (talk) 20:02, February 7, 2016 (UTC)