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Good grief! This is where I thought I was... before... when I added to the real wiki... How embarassing!


Respec Alistair into a Tank Edit

BUT, to business: I have the raven mod that will let me respec Alastair in the Tower of Ishal. He just leveled to 6th. Before leveling, he has the 3 Combat Training's, Shield Cover, and Shield Pummel -- which could lead to Overpower now at 6th if I put all 3 stat pts into Str. He also has the first Templar talent & Threaten. None of that looks terrible, I have to say. But his stats...

Str 22, Dex 18, Will 15, Mag 12, Cun 11, Con 13.

I don't know off-hand how much of that he had to take as a human warrior, but some sure look like wasted stat points to me! Due to another mod, he has an incredible Warden amulet (I wish mine were as good!), and possibly other gear that turns that into...

Str 24, Dex 19, Will 17, Mag 15, Cun 12, Con 16.

Would you respec him, and how? (I want to keep him a Sw/Sh Tank & Templar.) And I do know how to use the Raven mod; that's not the problem. It's whether Alastair is fine as he stands, or whether I should alter something, and if so -- what. I tried searching the forum, but apparently my search-fu is about as strong as Morrigan's shapeshifting. Maybe worse. So if anyone could give me advice, I'd sure appreciate it! And thank you, in advance.

-- Bitter Lily (talk) 01:45, February 22, 2017 (UTC)


Theoretically at level 1: 15 / 14 / 10 / 11 / 11 / 13 + 5 points during creation. Then add 3 points per level.
I believe he has 20 / 17 / 15 / 12 / 11 / 13 at level 4, where he usually joins me for the first time.
And as I think we had talked about respeccing I won't tell anymore about that topic. (Is that why you didn't ask me? Icon wink) CompleCCity (talk) 03:21, February 22, 2017 (UTC)


To ComplecCity -- I'm sorry I didn't ask you directly, but I admit, I was hoping you'd see the post & respond! The initial stats are a big help -- thank you!
So, after much ado & fussing, I've established that I could reasonably switch 3 pts from Will & 1 from Magic to give him 4 more Str. That would give him at 5th...
Str 26, Dex 18, Will 12, Mag 11, Cun 11, Con 13 ===> Str 28, Dex 19, Will 14, Mag 14, Cun 12, Con 16 (after adding bonuses from specialization & gear).
OTOH, the extra 4 pts of Strength may not matter for armor or weapons. Even with the lower Strength of 22 at 5th, but getting a consistent two pts/level added, he might do fine for what we are able to find. It's hard to confirm that, though.
And again, sticking with his starting stats and calmly putting 2 pts into Str & 1 pt into Dex every level will probably give him all the stats he would need for talents. You see, in the past, I usually haven't bothered with the Shield Defense tree until I had no other choices, but after reviewing the article on Tanks, I see that I have been in error. I also was mistaken, unfortunately, in valuing Threaten over Taunt, which is why I picked Threaten at 5th. Ironically, I might want the respec solely to undo that talent choice. If instead I pick Precise Striking, Alastair can get Taunt at 6th. At that point, he should have more than the Str & Dex he needs for Shield Defense at 7th, Shield Balance at 8th, Shield Tactics at 9th, Shield Wall at 10th, Overpower at 11th, Shield Expertise at 12th, and Shield Mastery at 13th -- right on time for Champion (Origins) talents at 14th.
Perfect, if Alastair doesn't need Templar (Origins) talents until the late game. Plus, at some point, I'll have to circle back for Assault and the other Warrior talents, especially Threaten, Bravery (Origins), and Death Blow (Origins). The fact is, assuming that the game goes to 22nd level, Alastair can get every talent possible -- 8 more Shield talents, 7 more Specialization talents, and 7 more Warrior talents. It is just a question of timing, priorities, and patience, the last being a quality I am well-known for among my friends. (Or maybe not. Icon wink )
In short, I'd still love advice, but it's looking like a respec that restored his 4th-level stats and then changed my 5th-level talent pick might be good enough.
-- Bitter Lily (talk) 20:32, February 22, 2017 (UTC)
One of these days, I'll learn how the man spells his name! -- Bitter Lily (talk) 01:59, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
Thanks giving me a place to think aloud. (And thanks to CompleCCity for at least answering!) Oh, I wish there were still tons of people here. But in case this helps anyone else coming back to the game: I've decided on major surgery, after all. I've realized that, seeing as I want to go to the Brecilian Forest straight from Lothering, we can in theory slay some wicked revenants and collect the silverite Juggernaut set very early. So I'd like Alistair to reach 37 Str (+1 from his modded amulet) by 11th level, with a steady diet of 2 Str & 1 Dex every level. In short, I think I'll need the extra 4 Strength.
Here's my plan, if anyone wants to comment:
  • Alistair will get 3 extra Strength (drawn from Will), and 1 extra Dex (drawn from Magic), at 4th level.
    • This means he'll have stats of 23 / 18 / 12 / 11 / 11 / 13 at 4th,
    • which adjusts to 24 / 19 / 14 / 14 / 12 / 16 with trinkets (no armor or weapons, which will change).
    • As he levels through 13th, he'll get 2 Str & 1 Dex every level.
    • By 13th level, he'll have stats of 41 / 27 / 12 / 11 / 11 / 13,
    • adjusted to 42 / 28 / 14 / 14 / 16 with trinkets.
  • I won't change his Templar Specialization or his three Combat Training skills at 4th.
    • At 6th & 9th, he'll take the first Survival & Poison skills.
    • At 12th when the last Shield talents become available, he'll get the last Combat Training skill.
  • I won't change his Templar talent (Righteous Strike) or his Warrior talent (Powerful),
    • nor three of the Shield talents (Shield Bash, Pummel, & Block) that he had at 4th level.
    • However, instead of Shield Cover, I'll make him take Shield Defense by 4th.
    • My 5th-level pick can then be Shield Balance & my 6th, Shield Wall.
    • For 7th & 8th, I'll plan on Precise Striking & Taunt.
    • From 9th through 13th level, I'll fill in Overpower, the rest of the Shield Defense tree, and Shield Expertise.
At 14th level, Alistair will have taken every Shield talent except Assault, and he'll be able to wear any armor or wield any weapon in the game. I do know he'll pick the Champion spec, and want to max out Survival for his remaining skills. However, I'll have to figure out his priorities anew for his stat points as well as for his talents. But that's for another day...
-- Bitter Lily (talk) 20:28, February 23, 2017 (UTC)


Perhaps I change my mind about respecialization in general. Seeing so many mistakes – in my eyes they are mistakes – and for the sake of a harmonic and well-balanced party, and as I anyway don't enable auto-leveling for any character, so why not going some steps back in their history and manipulate some unfortunate decisions…
For example Sten's missing specialization. Or Oghren's discontinuity in Awakening. Then the "missing" skill for all companions, compared to the Warden. I think, there were some attribute points missing as well for some, at least for the dwarves from Amgarrak. Missing requirements. And those talents that are added via script for every temporary companion, three additional ones for whatever reason; hate this, and it's nearly impossible to remove them permanently, because after each load they are back.
So I will go and distribute the attribute points to my taste, even if this means to steal some from e.g. MAG and add them to STR. Not so for talents, though – in most cases, I think… will see. Attribute points are distributed only through a 2da file. Talents, however, are character specific, and as such belong to story writing. Which I don't want to change.
(That's the reason why it currently takes me so long to get through my origin – documenting, recalculating and changing the temporary companions.)
Your Alistair there above doesn't look sooo different from the one I told you about in your original forum.
  • Your: STR 41 – DEX 27 – WIL 12 – MAG 11 – CUN 11 – CON 13 (@ 13)
  • Mine: STR 35 – DEX 26 – WIL 15 – MAG 12 – CUN 14 – CON 13 (@ 13)
Um… okay, he does indeed. I put points in CUN for Combat Tactics, which you don't, and didn't redistribute WIL and MAG. Why do you give 27 to DEX? 26 is sufficient for the highest shield talent, Mastery.
  • Next: STR 41 – DEX 26 – WIL 10 – MAG 11 – CUN 14 – CON 13 (@ 13)
Now, this one's very similar. Smiley
As for the talents: our order might differ, but basically we're assigning the same talents.
Do you know of the tool "GFF-Editor"? You can actually change everything in your save-game with that. I use it for reassigning attribute points.
Skills and talents I change with the console, addtalent and removetalent.
There's a fantastic mod, AddItem improved. (It's no module, nothing to need being activated in the downloadable content area of the settings, only some override files.) It combines the classic "AddItem" with the "AddItemWMat" and has expanded item lists. I don't like the visual solution for this feature, seems to be less reliable. With the latter, "AddItemWMat" – which stands for "add item with material" – you can add items to your inventory with the desired material, the wanted tier. So you wouldn't have to bother with Cailan's armor set being silverite anymore, only because you visited Ostagar too early. Simply add the set another time as dragonbone, and destroy the old version. (You could certainly sell it as well, but that would be real cheating.) This way you'd also spare this whole "sell it to some vendor, re-buy it later" or "stash it in the party chest, revisit the location" stuff…
I've also seen some auto-level mod, but have no experience with it.
And for respecs there are really many solutions available: several which add the Manual of Focus or a similar item to the game, one for the console to add attribute, skill or talent points, and many more. Well, I stay with what I know, GFF and console, maybe tomes.
And some Alistair mods you probably want to try, if you don't have already: one to transfer the rose to Awakening, one that makes the rose an amulet, one that gives him his own (stronger) Warden's Oath, one that makes his mother's amulet a real amulet, and of course many romance expanding ones.
Now back to my game – and to some other responses at other places somewhen later. Oh, and first a look into the wiki's recent changes, just so… Smiley CompleCCity (talk) 17:25, February 25, 2017 (UTC)


Thanks for the tips on AddItemWMat -- although somehow you make using it sound daunting. What's "less reliable"? I'm going to have to review the mods available again. I got Quartermaster Toby, but he simply stores things, without updating them. (That's a feature listed as a "to do" that apparently never got implemented.) I've got the mod that lets you respec via ravens throughout Ferelden, and like it. (I'm glad you're reconsidering "respectful respecs." Like I've said, I don't want to turn Alastair into a character he isn't, like a 2-hander, but sharpening him for the role he chose is different.) And thank you also for the mods for Alastair. I've got to get the one that lets me keep his rose in Awakening! Although turning it into such a powerful item... I'll pass. Now, I've got the ones that make my Warden's Oath stronger (unimplemented right now) & that give Alastair an equivalent item (implemented), and like them. I've got one that expands conversations with him. I didn't spot other "romance expanding" ones, though. I'll have to go check again before I start my new game. So thanks! -- Bitter Lily (talk) 18:32, February 26, 2017 (UTC) (And now that I've remembered to sign my comment, let me point out that you forgot to sign yours!)
Just noticed when I came here to read your post… Grmph. Changed that. --CompleCCity (talk) 07:17, February 27, 2017 (UTC)
Addendum: I went and reviewed your Alastair from my other forum article. You gave him a Str of 54 by end-game, which greatly surprised me, but I'm likely to be not that far behind. However, now that I'm trying to embrace the concept of "Tank," I'm planning on giving him a lot more Dex than I used to. If I continue to put one pt into Str & Dex every level, and free up one pt for other stats, a possible pre-buff build at 21st level would be
  • 49 / 35 / 15 / 11 / 16 / 13, buffed to 50 / 36 / 18 / 14 / 18 / 16 with two specializations & his amulet.
Plus I'd have 3 more pts at 22nd to allocate to offset odd-numbers introduced by other gear. For instance, I believe I'll want him to wear the Juggernaut set, which adds +3 Str & Con, so an extra point of each might be helpful. (I went to 16 Cun for a different skill than you did -- Survival.) You said you had
  • "STR 54, DEX 26 (for Shield Mastery), WIL 16, MAG 15, CUN 16 (for Master Combat Tactics), CON 15" at 22nd, before specializations & gear (right?).
  • That means you had +5 / -9 / +1 / +4 / +0 / +2 compared to my imagined build.
This makes sense since I still have 3 pts in reserve; I could easily use them to wipe out the differences in Will & Con. I do find it curious that you actually boosted Magic from the out-of-the-box 12. What was your reasoning? (Incidentally, this proposed build has a Con that is far lower than anything I've tried before.)
-- Bitter Lily (talk) 19:26, February 26, 2017 (UTC)


The "visual solution" I spoke of is another mod, trying to improve the improved version. The reason behind: With the (old) improved version you need to type a lot into the console. You have to know the item ID, and you have to know the ID for the material. So, it's not some easy cheating. With the new, visual improvement you only have to type runscript get(x) – if desired followed by some filter to reduce the list –, the rest is handled via a container dialog. It's also flexible because it allows adding custom items from mods. Well, I have the codes, I am willing to type, and I know the old mod and how it works. The new one places temporarily a vase (yes, a vase!) in front of your character, shortly visible after closing this container dialog – and there's someone in the mod's forum asking for a solution to delete two vases that were left in his party camp. Smiley It's also somehow slow, the container more laggy than usual ones. And then the material version from the same modder – that simply changes all equipped items to the wanted tier at once. I don't want to know how many errors this will produce if you're a little thoughtless… So I stay with the reliable version, and only have to type a little more.
You can also change the material with the GFF editor. (Now with link. Icon wink)
Okay, I forgot, you're following a tank guide or something. It's plausible to increase DEX for a tank – better defense, at the cost of STR for attack and damage. A tank shall be tanking, not damage dealing – there are others for.
I play my fighters… sorry, my warriors as classical fighters. Fighters are damage dealers in my eyes. They are also able to tank somehow, due to heavy or massive armor. But should I ignore all those offensive shield talents? Maybe my Alistair got more often injured than yours will be, but this is my way, my style of playing such a game. (And I haven't read such guides. – Perhaps I should write some? Hm…)
The STR 54 was a theoretical, role-playing decision. If I had been able to assign expansion talents during the OC (there's a mod for this) he would have gotten one with this requirement. So I assign(ed) points to the requirement attributes first, to reach the levels needed. And then I go and look, which other attributes might fit the character. CON is always good for warriors and tanks. WIL gives more flexibility with talents. CUN could be considered for the increased armor penetration. But for a templar – in my RP point of view – MAG is a must. "Know your enemy!" So, after settling with the necessities, I distributed points in attributes, that RPly matched my view of the character Alistair. (You know, you really should learn how he spells his name; didn't you want to fall in love with him? Icon wink) The character, not only his role in the party or his class.
Interjection: I know, I know. Aldous always told me that my spelling and penmanship were atrocious! Tonguesmiley -- Bitter Lily (talk) 23:40, February 27, 2017 (UTC)
I've seen one mod named "Alistair's Nightmare" or alike, and there are several, regarding kissing scenes. And sex scenes, of course.
Have to sleep for a while, 'til later. --CompleCCity (talk) 07:17, February 27, 2017 (UTC)
Addendum: I forgot to mention – what I had intended to do – that I usually don't consider item buffs in these calculations, or those from specializations. They are mere bonuses, which may change anyway, and for me only count when it comes to armor and weapons, and requirements fulfilled. I don't use your mods, so they aren't even comparable, but I will take a look in this warden's oath one – to see, if I might be inspired to do something similar for myself. --CompleCCity (talk) 12:42, February 27, 2017 (UTC)
I used to use your "fighters are fighters" theory, up until I discovered that it made Alistair a fair liability in a party. (Not as much of one as Leli, but...) I'm going to try following the role theory, and see where it gets me. So I guess I am putting off one offensive-shield talent (Assault), but mostly because it's not all that impressive. My plan calls for Alistair getting all of the other shield talents before he looks too hard at anything else!
I don't count any weapon/armor buffs, at least not until I'm sure I've got him fully loaded toward the end-game. But I want to keep him wearing his Warden's Oath, for RP's sake, so I counted that. Given that the Warden's Oath mod I've got adds +1 to all stats, I was aiming at odd numbers, and showed the buffed results partly to explain why I was otherwise being so "odd." Smiley And surely you agree that specialization bonuses don't just disappear? Well, the game devs apparently agree with you about Templars & Magic, but they failed (as far as I can tell) to encode that in any Templar abilities. So I tend to take an end Magic stat (post-Templar bonus) of 14 as "good enough." Especially when Will & Con are clearly still wanting!
Our Talk pages are getting dreadfully long! So I'll start a new thread tonight or tomorrow to talk about new PC decisions -- I hope to see you there!
-- Bitterlily (talk) 03:21, February 28, 2017 (UTC)


BTT … So, I've just added a level 4 Alistair to my party and come back to confirm some things I said, and to show you my new Alistair: Revised, which probably isn't sooo different from the old one…
Attribute Game compleCCified Goal @ Level Reason
Strength 20 26 54 18 Massacre, hypothetically
Dexterity 17 16 26 14 Shield Mastery
Willpower 15 10 13 20 Equaling with CON
Magic 12 11 13 20 Equaling with CON
Cunning 11 12 16 15 Master Combat Tactics
Constitution 13 13
Note: For now I don't have plans beyond level 20. Perhaps I'll further raise WIL, MAG + CON, perhaps some points go into STR + DEX, I'll see.
As already mentioned somewhere, I think the Warden shouldn't receive preferential treatment, regarding skills (and talents), so I add a "missing" skill to Alistair: Combat Tactics.
In addition I change Expert Combat Training to Improved Combat Tactics, because I have a certain vision of his development, including equal advancement in both skill trees. Survival will follow after mastering those.
I prefer to focus on talents, the developers had intended for the characters, in Alistair's case with these priorities:
  1. Templar specialization
  2. Shield Bash tree
  3. Shield Block tree
  4. Shield Defense tree
  5. Powerful tree
Note: Yes, I have added the Shield Defense and prioritize it over Powerful, although the latter was assigned, the former not – personal taste.
Followed by Champion and the Precise Striking tree. I'd prefer to add the Juggernaut tree before, but that isn't accessible in the official campaign (withoud a mod). Then hypothetically the Second Wind tree and the Guardian at last.
Shall others judge, if this is a good tank – you know about my thoughts regarding this. Icon wink --CompleCCity (talk) 11:06, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
I've changed the goal level for DEX. --CompleCCity (talk) 18:03, March 5, 2017 (UTC)

Busted! Edit

It would all be easier to follow if you weren't switching accounts constantly (and without any comment on that topic) … Are you aware of this? --CompleCCity (talk) 14:10, February 28, 2017 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
Oh no! I have two computers (desktop & laptop) and switch between them. I did have trouble logging in once, and tried to identify myself by name in my text, while posting as a number assigned by the system. First, will that get me in trouble? Could I have had trouble because I was still logged in on the desktop while trying to log in on the laptop? Or is it that I apparently can post as Bitterlily and Bitter Lily that you're referring to? (Again, I think I did one on the desktop and one on the laptop.) Thanks for alerting me to the problem, in any case. :( Let's see how this sig comes out... -- Bitter Lily (talk) 17:05, March 1, 2017 (UTC)

For all further concerns regarding this, please see Bitter Lily's talk page. --CompleCCity (talk) 23:14, March 1, 2017 (UTC)

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