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Forums: Index > Lore Discussion > Golem dillema

I was thinking, in Origins, the devs made the nature of the Golems so horrific that the correct path seems obvious, but on the other hand the protagonist is a Grey Warden, in the joining scene it is made clear how far the Wardens are ready to go in order to fight the blight, so would not every Grey Warden choose to keep the anvil because he would think it worth the price, after all making Golems is not that dissimilar from making Wardens when one thinks about it.

(In response to the anonymous OC) Becoming a grey warden is actually worse - they are infected with a deadly pathogen and doomed to eventually become ghouls. And the warden candidates aren't even told what they're getting into until the joining, at which point their choices are get murdered or infect themselves with a fatal illness. All grey wardens are given a death sentence at the joining. Some are just lucky (or unlucky) enough to have that sentence deferred for a few decades.

Dwavers that become golems are actually given the exact opposite fate. They become nigh-invincible, immortal engines of destruction, become immune to toxins and diseases, no longer need eat, drink, sleep, or breathe, and apparently don't even feel any pain. The transformation process itself might be painful, but that's only temporary. Assuming that only volunteers are used, I see nothing wrong with making golems. In fact, if I were a dwarf in that situation I might opt for it myself, especially if I was very old or suffering form a severely debilitating or terminal condition.

The problem is not so with golems - it's with control rods. Of course this is the crux of the issue with all forms of slavery. There's nothing innately wrong with being an elven servant. There are worse fates. Being a slave, however - being stripped of all rights and forced into a condition (any condition), that's what's wrong.

The control rods are a symbol of enslavement (as well as enslavement devices). Without them being a golem would be kind of awesome. Whether or not the Warden perseveres the anvil should depend on whether or not he/she thinks that Branka and the new king will abuse it. Of course, they do, but the Warden has no way of knowing that for sure. It's also possible that the anvil could be used ethically in the future. Destroying the anvil forever deprives the dwarves of a potent weapon against the darkspawn. That's worse than keeping it because it might be misused. The anvil could always be destroyed later, but it cannot be remade. Irreversible actions should only be performed if it's absolutely necessary, and this is simply not the case. Silver Warden (talk) 02:17, April 15, 2017 (UTC)

Warden recruits aren´t always willing either, as we know Wardens can recruit anyone against their will, IDK if that goes for Elves and Dwarves too but i know that at the very least in Human Noble origin if you keep refusing to join Duncan will eventually recruit you against your will so it was not really a choice in the first place, they just wanted you to go willingly.

(To anonymous: please sign your posts) The dwarves are both killers (or accused killers) forced into exile, the Dalish elf is already infected, and the city elf is a convicted murderer. So yes, all of them have no choice. The mage Warden doesn't have a choice either, since he/she is accused of helping a blood mage (even if he/she was really helping Irving). Yet another reason why the wardens aren't actually heroes. Silver Warden (talk) 17:28, April 15, 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, new to this forum, not sure how it is done yet, will try to sign. Anyway surely if it is seen as ethical in the DA world to force convicts to join the grey wardens (and those who are not convicts, the right of recruitment extends all the way to the royal family, in theory Wardens can recruit the reigning king, but of course in practice they would hardly get away with that) then turning those sentenced to death into Golems is not far off, and such groups as Dead Legion commit to fighting darkspawn to death either way, i see no reason why wounded or ailing members of the Dead Legion would refuse to be turned into Golems so they can fight on, fighting darkspawn is their sole focus in life, there is no turning back for them anyway.Samoja1 (talk)

The grey wardens don't claim that conscription is ethical, they claim that is it necessary. The distinction may seem academic but it isn't. Grey wardens do not care about right and wrong. They care about dead darkspawn and living darkspawn. That being said, I think that convicts are given a choice of joining the wardens (or legion) or serving their sentence, even if it's a capital one. Ethically, the same should apply to becoming a golem, but Bhelen and Branka force not only convicts but also the casteless, their enemies, and (possibly) a few captured surfacers. The reason they can get away with this is two-fold: 1) the public doesn't know about the anvil and 2) only Branka can use the anvil (as far as few know). It's also located in a remote outpost surrounded by darkspawn, but it may be possible to move it. Regardless, if the dwarven citizenry knew about the anvil and other smiths could use it, it'd be less prone to abuse because its potential power would be spread throughout dwarven society. Some dwarves might be okay with turning criminals and casteless into golems, but would they all? If the assembly were given oversight of its use and if multiple smiths were allowed to use it, not only would the power of the anvil be shared with all of dwarven society, the responsibility of its use would be as well.

Oh and btw Samoja1, you seem to having gotten the hang of signing now. Silver Warden (talk) 17:57, April 17, 2017 (UTC)

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