I have open this discussion because the discussion in the talk page is apparently not working well. As you all know there is a section in Dragon Age II page, named as "Major characters". But I believe some of those characters are cannot be consider major and those names are there because of the opinion of the corresponding editors. So as usual, here we are trying solve this using a discussion.

The main concerns I currently have on Bodahn Feddic, Sandal, Leandra Amell, Gamlen Amell and Seneschal Bran due to one or more following reasons:

• Not a companion
• Not involve in the main plot or contribution to the main plot is much less (in other words their actions or involvements does not effect or minor effect for the main plot).

Also I don't believe, if a character appeared in DA:O that can take as a reason to consider that character as a major character in DA2.

Following are the non-companion characters who considered as "major" in Dragon Age II page:

Cassandra Pentaghast, Meredith Stannard, Orsino, The Arishok, Marlowe Dumar, Grand Cleric Elthina, Flemeth, Cullen, Petrice, Bartrand Tethras, Marethari, Thrask

Other suggestionsEdit

• Isolationistmagi has suggested that we should move Flemeth into the Cameo category. Please see comments section for reasoning. -- Snfonseka (Talk) 03:33, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

• King Cousland has suggested the following.

A "Major" character should be considered major when:

1. The character is a companion.

2. The character plays a main part in more than 2 main plot quests (for example, Flemeth or the Viscount would qualify, though Bodhan or Cullen would not).

3. Their continued presence is vital to the plot (this could also mean their post, not the "person" themselves, such as Elthina or the Visount for example).

A character only has to satisfy one of the above three in order to consider "major".

• King Cousland has suggested the following.

We can make large cuts to the "Major characters section", leaving only Hawke, companions and major bosses and players (Arishok, Viscount, Grand Cleric, Meredith and Orsino). Then we can create a "Secondary Characters" section where figures such as Bartrand, Leandra, Flemeth etc. Then the cameos section could stay as it is. -- Snfonseka (Talk) 04:41, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

CommentsEdit

Agreeing with all of these things, but would also recommend moving Flemeth into the Cameo category. Because, all things considered, how important is she really to DAII as a character? She serves two important functions, it's true, she sees Hawke to Gwaren from whence he reaches Kirkwall and gives us a link to the Dalish, but important functions do not make her an important character. If Flemeth dissapears, it is easy to reconnect the dots and reestablish continuity. --Isolationistmagi (talk) 03:53, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

You have a valid point. -- Snfonseka (Talk) 04:17, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

I think it can go either way. I’d say Flemeth serves roughly the same purpose in DA2 as she did in DA:O, so I’m inclined to say she’s just as important to DA2. (So if she was a Major character there, she should be here, as well.) But her appearance also felt kinda forced, like the writers really, really wanted her matter, but didn’t know how to make that happen, which gives off the cameo feel. HELO (talk) 16:07, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

I'd definitely consider Flemeth a major character, as she's integral to the plot, as is Leandra. We shouldn't measure importance by screen time. Flemeth isn't just there as eye candy for Origins fans, she's a major player the franchise, and will likely be featured in all instalments. In fact, strictly speaking, she serves much the same function as in Origins (where I'm sure there's no argument she's a major character), though she actually has more screen time in DAII. So, just to be clear, I consider Leandra and Flemeth major, but have no qualms with the rest. King Cousland | Talk   20:10, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

The only one out of those I would consider a major character would be Leandra, I agree the other don't really qualify nearly as much as her. She has almost as many cut scenes as most of the other main characters listed on the page. More than characters like Petrice and Flemeth who are listed. She plays a huge part in the White Lily killer's questline as well. She's also one of the most important characters to Hawke's motives in the game as well. Tommyspa (talk) 03:59, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

What makes a major character Major? An input in the storyline? The value of it is too disputable. I'd rather stick to companions only, for the sake of not bringing up any disagreements.-Algol- (talk) 04:19, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

I dont know, Flemeth seems like a "major character." Her role in the story is just as big as Duncan's, and he is clearly a major character. Plus bioware wouldnt have given her a unique look for nothing. Crimpycracker (talk) 05:22, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

If we are only separating them into the very broad categories of Major and Minor characters, then we’re going to get some really borderline characters on the Major list (I mean, how important is Thrask, really?). Given that, I’d argue that Leandra is a Major character because she has the potential to be very important to your playthrough. I think her importance depends on how much you allow yourself to care about her character (does she feel like a mom, to you? Or just another chatty NPC, like Herren or Wade?)--and how much her death influences the choices you make in the latter half of the game. But the other guys on the list above are not what I would call Major characters. (They’d probably fall on the high end of Minor, though.) HELO (talk) 16:05, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

I would say that the most important thing is to make it consistent with the Dragon Age: Origins page, because at the moment the Origins page seems to be a little more lax in terms of who is considered to be a major character than the DAII page is. As a result I think you should be either adding a few characters to the DAII page or removing some from the Origins page. Violet Rogue (talk) 18:58, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

Dragon Age: Origins has it's own problems regarding this "major" issue. I think the best example is considering dog as major character. We'll sort it out after we sort DA2 :) -- Snfonseka (Talk)

I'd like to make a proposal: a "Major" character should be considered major when:

1. They are a companion, or,
2. They play a main part in more than 2 main plot quests (for example, Flemeth or the Viscount would qualify, though Bodhan or Cullen would not), or,
3. Their continued presence is vital to the plot (this could also mean their post, not the "person" themselves, such as Elthina or the Visount for example)

If people support this proposal or would like to suggest any alterations, or even a new guideline, I'm sure we'd all welcome it. If we can find consensus, I believe we could and should establish a "Major Characters" policy, since (IMHO), Origins' major characters section could use some major slashing as well. King Cousland | Talk   20:10, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

Not sure if I get it... So how many of the above three requirements does a character need to satisfy to be major? Just one? Imo, either it's the first or second and third combined. -Algol- (talk) 20:21, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

Whoops! Sorry, kind of left that unfinished But yes, IMO, they'd only need to satisfy one aspect of the criteria. On reflection, I also agree with you about the combing of aspects 2 and 3. King Cousland | Talk   20:25, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

I like (and agree with) your criteria. Though, if I may play devil’s advocate for a moment (and this is just me wondering aloud): do Duncan and Cailan fit these criteria? Because I think we can safely consider them Major characters, but…I mean, they both die very near the beginning of the game, so I don’t know how many main plot quests they’d be directly involved with; and, being dead, they don’t really have a continued presence for most of the game. The memory of who they are or what they represented certainly carries through the game, so does that count? Or does their having a major role in an early part of the overall plot sort of qualify? HELO (talk) 21:09, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

You know that's a very good point. However, I think we can all agree we don't want to get bogged down in bureaucracy, so if anyone would like to make some adjustments to perhaps broaden the scope just a little? Failing that, I guess we could just stick with the current system, and slash through characters that we build consensus on, which is what User:Snfonseka's original aim was. King Cousland | Talk   21:18, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

So... Maybe let's just make a poll?-Algol- (talk) 23:33, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

We don't generally use polls for stuff like this. In fact, I'm not sure a vote's necessary at all, I'm pretty confident we can build a consensus through discussion. I feel like I've hijacked this thread, so, to get back the original question, I'd omit these characters from the list:

• Bodhan
• Sandal
• Cullen
• Thrask

I won't deny that Flemeth is a major player in the long haul, but her role within the context of Dragon Age II is very small, and the page in question exists within the context of the game. To that extent, I maintain that her role within the context of the game is minor. As I said before, she could have easily been cut and two or three minor tweaks later and we would have never known the difference. --Isolationistmagi (talk) 23:47, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

I respectfully diasagree. To say that a character could be removed and the story could still work with tweaks might be a sign of bas writing, and it could also be said of many characters, including Hawke, but we shouldn't get into hypotheticals. I suppose we could reach a compromise, if people would be willing to conform: I have no issue accepting that Flemeth is not a major character in the game, if we can also agree that she is not a cameo. I propose we make large cuts to the major characters section, leaving only Hawke, companions and major bosses and players (Arishok, Viscount, Grand Cleric, Meredith and Orsino). I then propose we create a "Secondary Characters" section where figures such as Bartrand, Leandra, Flemeth etc. Then the cameos section could stay as it is. King Cousland | Talk   23:59, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

I have absolutetely no objections to that at all. --Isolationistmagi (talk) 00:52, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

The secondary section would really help reducing the major section quite a bit. And should we adhere to characters like Flemeth being a major character in "Dragon Age" as a whole vs being a major player in "Dragon Age 2"? Tommyspa (talk) 00:06, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

In my opinion, yes. The Dragon Age article itself could use some work, which I'll probably get round to tomorrow (don't let me stifle anyone though!), and I think that could benefit from a characters section. King Cousland | Talk   00:09, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

Would anyone mind if I went ahead and added the "Secondary Characters" section? Since there seem to be no objections, I'm going to go ahead de-cluttering the page. If anybody has any other suggestions or objections, feel free to voice them. King Cousland | Talk   23:55, December 18, 2011 (UTC)