As much as I love DA's lore, I'm going to have to go with LotR. Purely because of the depth, passion and decades Tolkien poured into perfecting it. I mean, the man compiled comprehensive lexicons of several of his own languages! I think another reason is that pretty much every post-Tolkien fantasy series (including DA) has been influenced by him in some way. I think DA would be easier to get into and more likable for somebody who's just discovered fantasy though, but for those who are familiar with the genre, Tolkien is surely the pinnacle (particularly his more complex works like the Silmarillion). 11:39, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
Hm, lets see. Literature classic and the greatest influence of the whole fantasy genre written by the English literature professor with deep interest in - and thorough research of - various languages and mythologies vs a game setting named after the abbreviature for "The Dragon Age Setting", patched from stuff randomly "borrowed" from random sources and written by a collective of hacks with the head writer not knowing origins of the name Morrigan. That's a toughie. Is that you, annoying Terry Goodkind fan? Dorquemada (talk) 12:24, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
Ha! Would it be too flippant to say they're essentially the same thing? At the very least, Tolkien's Middle Earth is the father of Thedas, and I'm fairly sure The Maker must be old J.R.R. himself. So yeah, that's a vote for Lord of the Rings. --Duranic (talk) 13:20, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
LoTR's lore is far deeper more detailed than DA's, and also more original (though Tolkien's work was influenced by other things -- he didn't work in a vacuum). DA's lore is well-done, but it's still noticeably derivative of other modern fantasy works, and it's mostly there to provide flavor to the games, so it's a lot less fleshed-out. Diyartifact (talk) 06:19, July 24, 2012 (UTC)
How is this even put to question ? Tolkien is the man who made fantasy being famous (not its creator contrary to what many people think) but still... I love DA Lore, I think it is deep and well-made and besides some bad stuff that was in DAII the story make me have a positive review of the game. But, the Lord of the Rings ? Seriously ? Even A Song of Ice and Fire doesn't match it, it arrives at its heels yes but this is still no match for it. --Cently Melanar (talk) 22:45, July 24, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah its an odd question. Dragon Age lore wouldn't exist without Lord of the Rings. But as said already, the lore in the DA is excellent. Best lore in a game, outside of say Forgotten Realms D&D campaign setting, of which Bioware knows quite well. --Elshiro (talk) 00:07, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
DA could technically be seen as LotR's younger cousin. In my opinion, Tolkein was a genius who crafted an entire world. As awesome as I believe DA to be, it simply cannot compare. Rathian Warrior (talk) 02:36, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
- /cough/ There is a world of difference between stealing and taking inspiration from. If there wasn't, Bioware would already have been sued by GRRM's lawyers for borrowing motives from AGOT. Besides, mythologies of related cultures do tend to have overlapping motives, and TOlkien is never copying to the letter. --Ygrain (talk) 15:43, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you for your enlightening opinion, I only mildly wonder if you have actually read anything else. You might want to work on your vocabulary, next time you decide to drop the pearls of your wisdom our way.--Ygrain (talk) 15:43, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
This is off topic but has anybody read the Malazan Book of the Fallen series? I don't think you can compare Tolkein and DA as Tolkien had many more years to work on his story and the fact is that DA is a game and has more than story to worry about. --HockeyLord46 (talk) 13:19, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
- Yep. Enjoyed the first half of the series quite a lot, after that it started to lose appeal. Too many characters, not that well fleshed out, and the plot is chasing too many hares.
- To the original question: am I supposed to take this seriously? LOTR all the way, for all the legends, songs, family trees, runes, languages... Really, comparing LOTR to DA is almost unfair. --Ygrain (talk) 15:43, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
1) Tolkien's depiction of the darker-skinned Southrons as evil has been called racist, although the argument still continues today and has by no means ended definitively in favor of one interpretation or the other (your mileage, as it were, may vary). 2) Tolkien's works are still derivative of older mythologies and of his own Catholicism (by his own admission ); although his works are called the precursors to modern fantasy, they are nevertheless not entirely "unique". 3) Tolkien's (admittedly inconsistent) use of clearly demarcated lines of "good" and "evil" lend an air of moral simplicity to his narrative, which could be excused considering the time he wrote in but nevertheless read as naive today. 4) Although both Dragon Age and The Lord of the Rings contain really awkward songs shoe-horned in probably just because the writers thought they were pretty, Dragon Age only does that once (with Leliana in Dragon Age: Origins) as opposed to the many times Tolkien does.
Wah,guys...Dragon Age's lore has so much potential.Yes,it's underdeveloped but compare DA's religion(Andraste,the Qun,etc) to LoTR's(not really there).The discrimination,the adult themes,the darker atmoshpere (darkspawns vs orcs...just seriously think about darkspawns' origins and ask yourself which faction is creepier),the fade,the Golden City,the blood magic vs lyrium magic,the different nations that are easier for us to relate to(Orlais-french culture,Ferelden-kinda look british).The persecution of mages?The old elven city?The corrupted gods?The sacrifice of the wardens?The moral decisions that affect the course of the history(LoTR had the ring that brought the greed in us all to the surface...but in DA there is no magical object for mind control-aside from the lyrium sword-but simply people as people). I don't know...LoTR is genius and all,mainly due to the languages.But it's more of an utopia compared to DA.I really believe the world of DA has more potential,while LoTR(even if very beautiful) doesn't leave much room for further development(the story is kinda finished). Also,someone added "A song of Ice and Fire"...how is it nearly as fascinating as the two of them? --HotaruKara (talk) 22:30, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
LoTR, the care and devotion dedicated to developing it far surpasses anything that Bioware has ever done. ----Isolationistmagi 23:30, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
Here's the thing, Tolkien spent decades, from 1917 until his death in 1973, pretty much his adult life, creating, inventing and defining an entire world, populated it with characters with such detail that even the minor characters put major, modern characters to shame. The man helped redefine a genre. The man had an intrinsic love of languages and poured a huge amount of time and effort inventing several languages, each with their own rules of grammar and syntax. There was a love and dedication that is rarely seen nowadays. I am by no means dismissing the work done on Dragon Age or any other series, be they literature or video game, but I'm rather stating that Tolkien's work; the Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit, the Silmarillion and every other book and letter he wrote are collectively a different kind of beast.
As for people saying that the Lord of the Rings is merely copying older stories, the fact of the matter is that every story is a copy of an older tale. There is a theory in literature (and this applies to every other media) that there are only 13 basic stories, that every other story is another version of one of those stories, or some combination thereof. The hero leaves their home to overcome a great challenge? The Warden and the Blight, Aragorn and his feelings about being King of Gondor and the War of the Ring, every story is a rehash of one of those basic stories. The challenge is realising what unique trait each storyteller has brought to the tale.
But the thing about Middle Earth was that, save for the times he consulted with professors and colleagues, Tolkien worked largely alone, while Thedas was pretty much a group effort by the writing team at Bioware. This, of course, isn't a bad thing, there have been times where a number of writers have all contributed to a central universe. Off the top of my head is the Cthulu mythology, which was a collaborative effort started by H.P. Lovecraft that was contributed to by Robert Bloch and Robert E. Howard. Neither method is the perfect method, and each leaves something different behind. Ultimately though, it isn't about which is better or more popular or more relevant. We each take something different from these tales and that should be the only thing that matters. --Madasamadthing (talk) 04:12, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
LoTR wins by a landslide. Sure, I like Dragon Age but compared to LoTR, it's lore is barely past it's infancy. Tolkien literally spent most of his life working on his lore while DA isn't even a decade old. Plus Dragon Age, while it has quite a bit of originality, has more than half of it's lore inspired by a multitude of different fantasy series. Aleksandr the Great (talk) 06:18, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
Well, Tolkein didn't write all his lore and then go back on it all in the actual story, whereas Dragon Age did. Therefore, Tolkein wins because his lore actually has a major effect on the story of the books, and remains pretty much constant with them. With Tolkein, you feel that his lore is useful for fully understanding the book. With Dragon Age, you don't as much. You're thrown into it with little need to do any reading of the background. I agree with others though, you can't compare the entire life's work of a genius to a video game, regardless of quality. Eggy2504 (talk) 15:52, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
- I think you'll find Tolkien was a genius, considering that he was a professor of Anglo-Saxon at Oxford University. Before that, he was a Reader at the University of Leeds. A Reader is an academic rank given to someone whose reputation into research has international acclaim. His essay on Beowulf is considered to be the defining work on the tale and has changed the way most researchers and essayists view Beowulf (just for context, Beowulf is considered to be one of the oldest surviving tales in Old English).
- As well as that, Tolkien served in the First World War as a lieutenant and at the outbreak of the Second World War was asked to be a codebreaker (despite undergoing a course with the Government Code and Cypher School, he was ultimately not chosen. That isn't a detraction in itself, in fact, it speaks how highly regarded Tolkien was with languages).
- Not to mention that the sheer amount of work Tolkien put into creating languages speaks for itself. During his life, Tolkien developed 15 languages for the Elves. That's vocabulary, rules for grammar and syntax. That includes several dialects. Add to that three languages for Men, a language for the Dwarves (including a form of Sign Language), Entish, the original Orc language as well as the language of the Powers and Sauron's Black Speech. His work on languages is so profound that many writers now use his work when they try to create their own languages.
- You say J.R.R. Tolkien was lucky. He wasn't. The man spent the years of his life working, researching and developing Middle Earth and beyond. There is dedication, effort and determination. --Madasamadthing (talk) 18:30, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
How about we all just agree to disagree and say that The Sword of Truth is worst fantasy series out of the lot of them? And Terry Goodkind has no talent and the worst sounding name ever. Aleksandr the Great (talk) 19:12, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
The user who signs as Jak Darckner is a troll who has been blocked but keeps using IP addresses to get around it. All we can do is to keep blocking him, but if he does post I'd strongly advise everybody not to engage with him, as his aim is to derail threads and create arguments. 19:48, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
Definitely Middle-Earth for me. He's the basis for almost ALL fantasy lore out there. When dwarves don't whack things with mauls and elves aren't graceful and beautiful with pointy ears in Thedas, maybe I'll give one point for originality. Maedhros and Fëanor ftw. - 18:36, August 1, 2012 (UTC)
Two words to win this debate: Customizable character. Dragon Age wins! If you need further proof: Randal's argument (even the trees walked), DA is more realistic, our rangers can summon, DA's gay elves are straighter than LotR's straight elves (and hobbits), too many endings vs. not enough beginnings, The Fade. And so on and so forth. Believe it! (talk) 18:14, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
Well this is mainly about the lore so the "you can create your own character"
argument is kind of redundant. Plus, if you take out everything in DA's lore that was inspired by LotR, there isn't much left in terms of originality. Like I said before, I like DA's lore, but it pales in comparison to LotR which has had decades of work. It's like comparing a fast food hamburger to a gourmet meal. Aleksandr the Great (talk) 18:41, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
- But if you remove the lore from LotR that was inspired by something previous then you don't have a lot of originality with LotR either. And the point of creating your own character means that you create your own lore as well. That's what makes DA better by leaps and bounds. And just because LotR had decades of work doesn't mean it's better. You can spend a lot of time on something but still have it end up being average. Like Duke Nukem Forever. Believe it! (talk) 16:11, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
It is a tie.... by Tzeentch, if I would ask this the Warhammer community, they would go for LotR :/ I don`t get it, LotR is overrated, DA is as good as it, TES is as good as it, Warhammer Fantasy is as good as it, tho Warhammer 40k is better. Yet, if LotR hadn`t the depth and one of the best movies ever on it`s side, DA would win by a kilometer. The fires of Tzeentch change all! (talk) 18:30, August 10, 2012 (UTC)