Some one brought up a question about the warden that makes the final blow. It's said who ever was to deliever the final blow to the archdemon soul would be destroy. So if this is the case could he been seen in the fade when others go to sleep. It was brought up by my fan fiction when my warden went into the fade and found him there.
Right, so according to the Chantry the ultimate destination for the dead is not the Fade. Upon death the soul passes through the Fade to its ultimate destination. For those who are faithful to the Maker the Chant of Light says this is at his side with his bride Andraste.
On your question more specifically. It is unknown what happens to those Wardens who strike the killing blow against the Archdemons. Their souls are destroyed so I would assume they, unlike most mortals, cease to exist completely. Whether or not the Maker or some other divine source can bring them back or shelter them to an afterlife is unknown, but I would assume the destruction to be complete. The Maker did not or could not destroy the Old Gods, so there are obviously powers to rival or eclipse his own in some matters. I would not be surprised for questions such as this to be answered later in the series.Magor88 (talk) Magor88 (talk) 22:06, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
That argument is invalid. You can't conclude that an agent is unable to do something merely by stating that he have not done it. If you chooses not to speak, many will soon consider you mute. In all regards but one you will be mute. Mutes my own designs retains the gift of speech. You would be very bad ad "War-Games" if you followed that logic. The best and surest way to win a protracted game is to fool your opponent into thinking your weak by not playing at full force.-rphb- (talk) 22:52, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
-rphb-, can you please stop acting like you are the authority on EVERYTHING? What do you mean Magor88's argument is invalid? For one, it's not even an argument. It's a theory. A proposed idea. Unlike you, other people on this forum post speculations. You cast forth edicts and absolute truths. I happen to agree with Magor88, that the Warden's soul is supposed to be destroyed; obliterated- ceasing to exist. As for the assumptions about the Maker, Magor88 says he "did not or could not." It wasn't said that the Maker was UNABLE, it was just stated that it didn't happen. If you don't understand the poster, please don't try to belittle them. Telling a poster they "would be very bad" at something is just plain rude. Let me go get a ladder so you can get down off your high horse. LVTDUDE (talk) 23:44, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
-rphb-, I agree with LVTDUDE. It was stated nowhere in that post that there was an argument having anything to do with the Maker's powers. Quit trying to act like you're the all knowing as you have just proven right there that you are not. Seriously you're just pissing people off.
To the one asking the question, I would say that the theory that they could go to the Fade would be plausible as it is a fan fic and also because nothing has been put into place to disprove it. While I agree the soul is simply wiped from existence, with all the unknowns in the magic lore and the Fade it could be possible that the soul was saved or reconstructed/reformed somehow. --Xiorath (talk) 23:51, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
I guess I agree that the soul of the Warden is destroyed when he/she makes the final blow. Doesn't Morrigan comment that the two souls "cancel each other out" or something like that? Anyway, even though I do believe the Warden is destroyed I would actually like to present an alternative to that. Is it not a common theme in most world religions and general rules of life that the ultimate "GOOD" act would be self-sacrifice for another? With that said, sacrificing yourself in order to save the world should be a major defining factor in judging ones worth. In my opinion the Chantry is a loose version of modern Christianity and I get the feel that when a person dies if they are judged worthy their soul moves on to the Maker. What would be more worthy than giving everything for the people of the world? I can't say if this is true or even possible but I like to believe the Warden making the final blow would be spared from an eternity of nothingness and allowed to move to "heaven". --Slim7180 (talk) 00:36, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
I'm not so sure that the wardens soul would be destroyed completely, in the magi origin I believe the spirit of justice speaks of a realm or existence beyond the fade that spirits go when they "die", but they know nothing of it like normal mortals know nothing of the fade. But at the same time if the wardens spirit(and one would assume the old god as well) ascended to that next level they would not meddle in the lower realms just as fade spirits do not with the mortal world(excluding demons).
"In my opinion the Chantry is a loose version of modern Christianity" The chantry is based off medieval era Christianity, modern Christians don't go around leading crusades anymore, the most radical now just plan book burns of other religions bibles. And not meaning to challenge your theory or anything but it was much more oriented towards sinning and repentance back then than the more prominent beliefs such as you described today, not that I know a whole lot about modern Christianity I know more from a historical stand point.--Flurried (talk) 04:21, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
- Sorry to chime in here and be slightly off-topic, but the Chantry is loosely based on Christianity, but not its modern incarnation. Unless the church has regressed a few hundread years when nobody was looking. (Knight Templar (talk) 03:34, October 14, 2010 (UTC))
I also believe that when the Grey Warden kills the Archdemon, both souls are meant to be destroyed fully. However, it's your fanfic so you can do whatever you please with it, and it really could go either way.
Also @-rphb-, I'd really suggest you'd tone down your holier-than-thou-euro-attitude before you attract the attention of the admins.
And @Knight Templar, sorry, but I edited your comment by placing it below Flurrid's so it wouldn't look as weird by being connected right after his sig, hope you don't mind. DeltaEcho (talk) 04:24, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
People seem to take issue with -rphb's comments a lot, but I doubt we will be seeing any changes on that front soon. If a comment is off topic it would be for the best not to derail a topic over it. Getting to the original topic myself, the answer is a great and resounding maybe. A lot of the lore we have for Dragon Age comes from the Codex, item descriptions and various NPCs. That lore is simply the world as the PC knows it and might not be the entire truth or the truth at all. While the Warden is told that killing the Archdemon destroys his/her soul that may not be the case, that's just what the person telling them knew. In so far as your fan-fics, if you want the Warden to show up in the Fade after making the Ultimate Sacrifice then put them there. The only people who could actually give a definitive answer are the writers and if they don't you simply have to fill stuff in as necessary. Something within the lore I feel I should point out though is the Spirits of the Fade and how they can impersonate people (seen extensively in the Calling). Spirits are quite able to mimic other people and not all of them are malevolent, what seems to be the Warden could just be a friendly (or not) spirit posing as him for any number of possible reasons. --Aedan Cousland (talk) 04:49, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
- I wouldn't believe a word of what Riordan told us about killing the Archdemon. In that same conversation, he also said that ordinary darkspawn are soulless vessels, which we know from Awakening to be untrue: Not only can freed darkspawn think and speak, but even unfreed darkspawn can enter the fade, which presumably requires a spirit, since that's the only part of oneself that does the entering. Riordan is just repeating the same stuff that's probably been passed down by the Wardens for centuries. How could he even know what happens to your soul when you kill the archdemon? Outside of religion, we don't even know what happens to souls of people that suffer a normal death! 75.82.211.133 (talk) 06:34, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
I believe when Riodin uses the word soul he uses it in the sense of personhood (those poor souls are trap in the ship). I do not believe a soul can be destroyed it is the transcendance of the body it knows what is truth its judgement is not clouded by lies and deceit it does not feel fear,anger or sadness it is an immortal and invincible part of oneself. A soul may not even be created it simply might be always existing and never ceasing, the essence of all of existence put into infinite "form". From what I take from the story the warden dies he doesn't "cease to exist". In one of the epilogues if you romanced Leliana and did not change her personality it says that she has a vision of the warden (presumably in the afterlife) and that eventually they would be reunited, people can say it was simply "another" false vision if they disregarded the first one but I believe it is genuine and whether or not you agree I believe it is something to ponder regarding this subject.--Gdubs (talk) 08:04, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
Huh, Gdubs makes a good point. I had forgotten about the vision Leliana has so that could mean it is quite possible that the Warden's soul could still be out there. But on that point, it could mean that it was the Maker who save him and now he is at His side. But I suppose it wouldn't be illogical for the Maker to send the Warden back to help if he so desired, besides an angel Warden would be sweet :D --Xiorath (talk) 16:26, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
to Xiorath & LVTDUDE. rphb is allowed to state whatever he wants to. while i agree it may not be an arguement he still makes a good point on the subject. anyway to actually get on topic for once. both "souls" are destroyed, warden gone forever, boo fucking who. AWSHISUN! jotun cousland.
you sign your name with four "~".--Gdubs (talk) 04:31, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
@DeltaEcho Although -rhpb- may think that he all knowing etc. has nothing to do with the fact that he is European. He also has the right of freedom of speech.
Either way I don't agree with him what so ever and what he said "need not be said". I think the soul may be out there but not necessarily the fade. 90.218.159.34 (talk) 17:19, October 16, 2010 (UTC)